Stefan,
I'm going to start with something that I didn't think was needed to say
but you know, I trust Tibor. You have no permission whatsoever to repost
anything I say in these discussions anywhere.
Now, to address everything in reverse order.
The Internet is a wonderful tool. I was too busy to pay attention in
2003 when the criminal cases against Schragger were brought. When I
found out about the suit by the victims, I mixed me, laptop, couch, cold
beer, hot food, and then added a good scoop of hyperfocus. About an hour
and a half later when I couldn't ignore hunger, the food was cold and
the beer was warm. Rewarm, drink the beer, sit down again and spend more
hours on the net. All the information is out there. I didn't even cheat;
I didn't use lawyer tools or inside information to find this out. I just
used the internet. I admit though, I did not find the parents names
then, that took some other stuff. (I grabbed a guy I know who lives in
the area and asked. This isn't a big hidden thing. That entire area of
the East knows who the parents are. Find someone you know and ask. They
will likely want to know why.)
Now, as to the rest of it, and again, this is all from the public
records (the lawsuit documents, various news articles, and other stuff
you can find on the Internet). The parents met and got to know Lord Ben
at their local SCA meetings. He was a youth officer in the SCA and set
up youth classes, training, education, and generally stuff for kids. He
had the kids over to his parents farm to work with him on SCA stuff.
Sometimes the parents went, but after awhile, they just let their kids
go alone. They knew the SCA trusted Lord Ben, it made him a youth
officer, and they could trust Lord Ben because the SCA does.
Now, they find out later that their child is abused, he/she is
victimized. The abuse is ugly. (I thought about quoting some of the news
articles here, but really, no. We're not talking about one-on-one
molestation, we are discussing sexual abuse of small groups of kids.)
Now, if you're the parents, you are hurting. Your child is hurt beyond
repair. You have thousands and thousands of dollars in medical care both
now and in the future. What do you do? How do you help your child and
pay for the medical care? How do you punish the wrongdoers? How do you
ensure that this doesn't happen again? According to the literature,
these are things that a lot of victims want, and quite often, the suits
are brought for these reasons.
I don't know the answers, but, thinking about this fully, did the
parents take responsibility for their kids? I don't know, I'm not a
parent, but they did know Lord Ben. Were they wrong to file suit against
the SCA? I don't know, I'm not a parent of an abused child, but it is
something that a parent can do to help ensure abuse doesn't happen
again.
Patrick
On Thu, Nov 6, 2014, at 01:55 AM, Mark S. Harris wrote:
> No, I’m not castigating the parents for their bad parenting. No one comes
> into this world knowing how to do that. I’m castigating them for trying
> to pass their failures off on other people. Your kids are your
> responsibility. You don’t just leave them at someone’s house unattended
> without personally knowing these people and checking them out. Why is the
> SCA Sensechal or anyone else, more responsible for checking out what is
> going on at every little meeting, especially ones that aren’t even SCA
> activities, but happen to be held by a particular SCA officer, than the
> parent is?
>
> Trying to destroy an organization that has been built up over many years
> by many different people, often vary far from where this one incident
> took place, THAT is what I hold these parents responsible for. I thought
> we were an organization based on PERSONAL HONOR and PERSONAL
> RESPONSIBILITY.
>
> I have only what has been available in the public record and what has
> been discussed in public forums and some email.
>
> That is the big problem. Most of the facts, including those who sued the
> SCA, are censored out. You can only go with the information that is
> available.
>
> It’s a great way to suppress all speech. If you can only speak about or
> ask questions about things you have complete knowledge of, then all you
> have to do to keep a lot of things in the dark is not to give any
> information out.
>
> It’s why companies can continue to make faulty automobiles that kill
> people. Settle with the relatives of those that are killed, force a no
> information released clause by the recipients and keep making faulty
> cars.
>
> When people tried to find out who the parents were, they were told this
> was not available. Perhaps since the case has now been closed, more info
> has been released.
>
> If you have that info on who the SCA parents were, please give it.
>
> I’ve been waiting to have the other side of this case before publishing
> the history. I’ve yet to see the side from the accusers.
>
> I am not an investigative reporter with experience in digging up these
> facts that Gabriel thinks are so easy to find. If some one does have this
> info, please pass it on to me.
>
> Stefan
>
>
> > On Nov 4, 2014, at 11:27 PM, Patrick Anderson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Stefan,
> >
> > Do you know the details of what occurred? It sounds like you are basically loathing the parents and castigating them for their "bad parenting" without any knowledge at all as to what happened.
> >
> > It's not hard to find out who the parents are. It's also not hard to find the pleadings in the suit. You may want to consider at least starting there.
> >
> > But I would suggest speaking from a position of any knowledge before you speak. You have none here.
> >
> > Gabriel
> > --
> > Patrick Anderson
> >
> > Sent from a phone.
> > Please forgive spelling mistakes.
> >
> >> On Nov 4, 2014, at 11:18 PM, Stefan li Rous <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >> At the same time, it doesn’t keep us from the loathing the SCA parents who wouldn’t or couldn’t watch their own children to keep them out of trouble and lazily handed off that responsibility to another. It’s just very unfortunate that that person happened to be an SCA local officer.
> >>
> >> I certainly hope those (now rich) parents are no longer playing. But, alas, as in many faulty product lawsuits, the facts and identities have been censored and hidden and we have no way of knowing.
> >>
> >> Stefan
> >>
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014, at 09:42 AM, Rex Deaver wrote:
> >>>> The SCA was nearly destroyed by a single lawsuit that nobody thought could possibly succeed, but had to be settled out of court to stop the money from hemorrhaging. They turtled up. It is going to be a long time before they think about anything that has the slightest whiff of liability, no matter how big a fit anyone throws.
> >>>>
> >>>> The only viable solution available at this time is to do stuff unofficially. That, of course, means taking on any liability personally, with no financial backstop.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mathurin
> >>>> Non nobis solum
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Patrick Anderson
> >>> [log in to unmask]
> >>> "No matter how much you feed the wolf,
> >>> he keeps looking at the forest." --Ilse Lehiste
> >>
> >> --------
> >> THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
> >> Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas [log in to unmask]
> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> >> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
> >>
> >> --
> >> Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu.
> >> listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to their DMARC policies.
> >
> > --
> > Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu.
> > listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to their DMARC policies.
>
> ======
> Mark S. Harris
> Embedded Electronics Engineer
> Firmware, Board and Systems Design
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
>
> --
> Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu.
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--
Patrick Anderson
[log in to unmask]
"No matter how much you feed the wolf,
he keeps looking at the forest." --Ilse Lehiste
--
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