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SCIART-L  September 2006

SCIART-L September 2006

Subject:

Re: [SPAM] Re: [SCIART] Creature from the sea...Orca?

From:

Karl Gehrman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration- <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:35:24 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (386 lines)

Thanks Jim and Barbara and all who replied to this question,
I think that by now is quite obvious this is an Orca or similar cetacean.
The busted teeth and shredded tissue threw me off.

Thought I had read fur into this picture at some point.

Decayed killer whales are not something I see often
on the beach in San Diego, though we do get other whale, seal and jelly seakills now and then.

As always you all are great about ocasional off topic TANs.
The Skeksis thread was very funny.

Its just so incredible that such a gorgeous creature as an orca could meet such an end.
But then again, we don't look all that....when they dig us up after a few months of decomp.

I guess the "Russian" old boys in the picture could have been a complete fabrication,
I find it hard to believe that seasoned fisherfolk don't know their own marine seakill.

Thanks for the responces!

Karl








________________________________

From: SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration- on behalf of Jim Perkins
Sent: Sat 9/9/2006 8:14 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SCIART] Creature from the sea...Orca?



Apparently many of my emails still aren't getting through to the listserv.
We'll try this again.

My first guess was that this is an orca. I sent some links to orca skulls
and vertebrae yesterday but they didn't come through. Don't have time to
track them down again, although the "Skulls Unlimited" link that someone
sent has a good picture of an orca skull.

There's no question that this is an odontocete of some kind. The elongated
skull with long nasal and frontal bones, the peg-like teeth (which are
clearly broken in this specimen) and the vertebrae are definitely from an
odontocete. Someone suggested a beluga but the tooth row doesn't look quite
right (again, take a look at the beluga and orca specimens on skulls
Unlimited). It also seems a little too big for a beluga. The "hair" is
either decomposed tissue or just seaweed that washed up with the thing.

Either a beluga or an orca would be highly likely since the creature washed
up on the shore of Sakhalin island. Like I said, I'm leaning towards the
orca because of the shape of the jaw.

Jim



> From: Barbara Gleason <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration-
> <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 23:13:54 -0700
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [SCIART] Creature from the sea...Orca?
>
> Hi all,
>
> Sent this thread upstairs to biologist husband Dan Gleason, (who has
> been one of the University or Oregon's "Identity Day" experts for the
> Museum of Natural History) and his first thought was: Orca. Or, at
> least the would be so if it were found on an Oregon beach!
>
> He sent me a link to a website with a photo of a skeleton, here:
>
>> http://www.wavelengthmagazine.com/2005/jj05mammels.php
>
> Might this be it?
>
> Barbara Gleason
>
> Even more off-topic: here's a true tale. Have you all heard the story
> of the Oregon coast's exploding whale? Even Dave Barry wrote it up!
> Some links...
> http://www.snopes.com/critters/disposal/whale.htm
> http://www.theexplodingwhale.com/
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding_whale
>
>
>>>> From: Karl Gehrman <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 10:22:27 AM PDT
>>>> Subject: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> Ok I know this is on topic but I just had to see if one of you has
>>>> any idea what the creature pictured at this link is ? I think there
>>>> a few skull collectors on the list a maybe a taxidermist.
>>>>
>>>> At first I thought it was a porpoise of some kind. But the tail end
>>>> is all wrong. But look at those teeth, they look flat like plant
>>>> eaters!
>>>> It does not seem to be fake, but the ³hide² could be covering
>>>> something. Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>> http://englishrussia.com/?p=251
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Karl Gehrman
>>>> Graphic Artist
>>>> Stratagene
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> 858.373.6507
>>>>
>>>> From: Stoney Compton <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 11:02:45 AM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> Wow Karl,
>>>> At first I thought it was a Sei whale, but the tail doesn't look
>>>> right. Maybe it's a dragon?
>>>> Stoney
>>>>
>>>> Karl Gehrman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Karl Gehrman <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 11:52:42 AM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> You got me curious Stoney!  So I located a Komodo Dragon skeleton.
>>>> Not a very good match.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.boneclones.com/images/sc-027_web-lg.jpg
>>>>
>>>> I have sent the photos to Skulls Unlimited to see if they have a
>>>> clue.
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>> Karl Gehrman
>>>> Graphic Artist
>>>> Stratagene
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> 858.373.6507
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration-
>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stoney Compton
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 11:03 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [SCIART] TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> Wow Karl,
>>>> At first I thought it was a Sei whale, but the tail doesn't look
>>>> right. Maybe it's a dragon?
>>>> Stoney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Britt Griswold <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 11:52:17 AM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> There are some alternate photos (too small) here:
>>>> http://www.boingboing.net/ Bottom of the page.
>>>> I think the claim of hair is a bit suspect; the decomposition is
>>>> advanced. That stringy stuff could be anything.
>>>> It is definitely whale-like. The teeth are either very worn down or
>>>> very unusual.
>>>> Check this out too:
>>>> <http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,20372915
>>>> -5006003,00.html>
>>>>
>>>> This one is interesting also:
>>>> <http://www.gateway2russia.com/st/art_151306.php>
>>>>
>>>> Cryptozoology is soo much fun!
>>>>
>>>> Britt
>>>>
>>>> From: jeremy swan <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 12:02:51 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> I found out what it is! I knew this thing looked familiar!
>>>>
>>>> It's a skeksis!
>>>>
>>>> Here's a picture:
>>>> http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Reviews/DarkCrystal/Images/Skeksis.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/8/06, Britt Griswold <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.boingboing.net/ Bottom of the page.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the claim of hair is a bit suspect; the decomposition is
>>>>> advanced. That stringy stuff could be anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is definitely whale-like. The teeth are either very worn down or
>>>>> very unusual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check this out too:
>>>>> <
>>>>> http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,20372915
>>>>> -5006003,00.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> This one is interesting also:
>>>>> <http://www.gateway2russia.com/st/art_151306.php >
>>>>>
>>>>> Cryptozoology is soo much fun!
>>>>>
>>>>> Britt
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Bruce Bartrug <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 12:10:09 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could this be a hoax? It's very high up on a steep sand beach.
>>>> Although there are piles of driftwood up there, too, I suppose.
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> From: Frank Ippolito <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 12:12:48 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>>  looks like a composite to my eye. marine mammal plus misc bones and
>>>> "fur" and whatever. bet the local kids had some fun one night.
>>>>
>
>>>> From: Bruce Bartrug <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 12:17:21 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, is that a vestigal right hind limb, or just some sticks?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Bruce Bartrug
>>>> PO Box 106
>>>> Nobleboro, ME 04555 USA
>>>> 207 563-1867
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> From: Catherine M Bursch <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 1:15:49 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it is a surviving Stellar Sea Cow! That would account for the
>>>> herbivore like teeth, Although those teeth might be broken or worn
>>>> down? I sent the photos to a guy here in town who has articulated
>>>> many whale skeletons. I know its not a beluga, their teeth are much
>>>> tinier and pointy.
>>>>
>>>> Catie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Karl Gehrman <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 1:42:43 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> It's the right size for a Stellar Sea Cow But look at the difference
>>>> in this skull:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.skullsunlimited.com/graphics/tq-176-lg.jpg
>>>>
>>>> And yes Jeremy, the resemblance to Skeksi is remarkable But I belief
>>>> Skeksi had skeletons similar to humans.
>>>>
>>>> If its really from the Russia There is a story I found that is from
>>>> the same region:
>>>>
>>>> "Nessie's Russian cousin
>>>>
>>>> The residents of Benyok, 250 miles (400km) north-west of Moscow,
>>>> claim that a huge aquatic beast, 'Brosnie', lurks at the bottom of
>>>> Lake Brosno. There have been numerous sightings, and tourists
>>>> camping near the lake took a photograph after their seven-year-old
>>>> son shouted that he had seen a dragon monster. Caravan-1, a
>>>> newspaper in Tver, the nearest big town, published the picture - a
>>>> panoramic view of the lake with an indistinct object floating in the
>>>> foreground - and the story has since flourished in the Russian
>>>> media. "It was big like this," said a resident, identified as Tanya,
>>>> as she sketched a snake-like head rising from the water with a large
>>>> eye on its side. Tourists flock to the lake in hope of catching
>>>> sight of the serpentine creature, variously estimated to be 13-16ft
>>>> (4-5m) long. Local people say that there are written reports of
>>>> monster sightings at Brosno dating back to 1854 and he legend might
>>>> be even older. Zoologists, however, dismiss the photograph as a log
>>>> and Brosnie as a fairy tale. Hong Kong Standard, 11 Dec; Observer,
>>>> 15 Dec; NY Post, 16 Dec 1996."
>>>>
>>>> Excerpt from Fortean Times
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Catherine M Bursch <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 2:56:51 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: FW: [SCIART] TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> Here is what Lee, the whale skeleton articulator says, below. I
>>>> guess I might have been wrong saying it wasn't a Beluga. I happen to
>>>> have a Beluga skull in a bucket on my porch, but it is an immature
>>>> and maybe the one I have still had its milk teeth as they are much
>>>> smaller than the photos. Catie
>>>>
>>>> From: Homer Bookstore [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:55 PM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [SCIART] TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> Hi Catie,
>>>> If that were on a local beach we would call it a beluga whale . The
>>>> skull shape is good. There are more teeth in the lower jaw then a
>>>> beluga should have . The size is good . From some of the vertebrae -
>>>> it looks like whale bones on that end . Immature whale bones. The
>>>> ribs look like a classic double jointed ribs but the shape may not
>>>> be matching to what I remember the beluga would look like .
>>>>  The teeth shape is good for a beluga whale . I'm not sure what
>>>> other whale species would look similar .
>>>>   Sue said to tell you that we have a book here for you .
>>>>   Thanks Lee
>>>>
>
>>>> From: Karl Gehrman <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 3:22:25 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: FW: [SCIART] TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Catie. That sounds more plausible than what I heard from a
>>>> cryto guy. He thought it was a dorudon atrox
>>>> Only problem with that is its been extinct for 38 millilon years
>>>> Look at the little tiny vestigial hind legs in this link.
>>>> http://www.researchcasting.ca/dorudon.htm
>>>> I just donıt get the fur though, unless its been hoaxed on.
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>>
>
>>>> From: Bruce Bartrug <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 5:46:05 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious about the jointed sternal ribs. I thought they were
>>>> confined to birds and some dinosaurs. (No, I'm not implying this a
>>>> Roc!) And wonder about the evolutionary relationships. Did birds and
>>>> the mammals that became cetacids originate in the same clade of
>>>> reptiles or dinosaurs? Man, that's what I call broad-brush. But
>>>> jointed sternal ribs would seem an inherited trait, one not produced
>>>> by convergence.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> Bruce Bartrug
>>>> PO Box 106
>>>> Nobleboro, ME 04555 USA
>>>> 207 563-1867
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> From: Eric Suchman <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: September 8, 2006 6:44:19 PM PDT
>>>> Subject: Re: TAN: X Creature
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> SKEKSIS!!!! That's what I was going to say!! I think you're right!
>>>>   Eric in Oceanside
>>>>
>>>
> --
> Barbara BC Gleason
> BGleason Design & Illustration
> www.bgleasondesign.com
> & CraneDance Publications
> www.cranedance.com
>
> _     Graphic Design, Book Publishing
> ( '<     Scientific & Commercial Illustration
> / ) )      [log in to unmask]
> //"  "      Ph: 541-345-3974
>
> P.O. Box 50535, Eugene OR 97405

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