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SCIART-L  September 1995

SCIART-L September 1995

Subject:

From:

[log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)

Date:

Fri, 15 Sep 95 09:53:21 CDT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (3180 lines)

Greetings and salutations!!

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 15 04:56:41 1995
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 09:56:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Chuck Sundermeier - (402) 472-5655" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: test mess
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[log in to unmask]"
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test message to sciart-l
------
Chuck Sundermeier            
UNL Computing Resouce Center
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
Lincoln, Nebraska 68588-0657
(402) 472-5434
From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 15 09:29:32 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: Greetings and salutations!

Hello, is anyone out there!This is a test to find out if there are any
subscribers to the list yet???Please reply and tell your friends that we
are on line!!!WE ARE READY FOR INFO,QUESTIONS, AND MESSAGES!!

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Mon Sep 18 09:49:41 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: hello out there!

Greetings from the moderator!I'm trying to figure out who is
subscribed!!Please post a sort message to the list as an introduction to
the group,if you get this message!! Thanks for your help!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Mon Sep 18 09:51:22 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: messages!

Messages to be posted are sent to [log in to unmask]

IF YOU NEED HELP-send the following one line mesage to [log in to unmask]

Help

(this will get you the hardcopy documentation of commands.

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Mon Sep 18 10:25:36 1995
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Date:         Mon, 18 Sep 95 15:25:36 CDT
From: Lana Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      HI
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id:   <950918.152604.CDT.AGCM029@UNLVM>

Hi.
Is anyone out there?
Lana Johnson

Lana Koepke Johnson
Illustrator - ICCS UNL, Lincoln, NE, USA
(402) 472-3025
INTERNET [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 19 09:03:49 1995
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Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 95 13:03:49 EDT
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Greetings and salutations!
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 15 Sep 1995 14:22:11 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

How many have signed onto the list so far?  Perhaps those on list can
spread the word thru their local chapter mtgs.












Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 19 10:42:50 1995
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Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 95 14:42:50 EDT
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: hello out there!
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:42:36 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Hi, Polly and fellow scientific artists!
  How about posting a list of subscribers some time?
 Also - Polly, do you have a staff position now at the U. Nebraska
Museum?  I have considered trying to find out how many staff positions
for scientific illustrators exist and what sorts: museum, university
depts, ad agencies, publishers, govt. agencies, whatever.








Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 19 04:38:43 1995
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Resent-Date:  Tue, 19 Sep 95 14:53:50 EDT
Resent-From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Resent-To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:38:43 -0500
From: [log in to unmask] (Silvia Troyo)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: 
Cc: [log in to unmask]

o.k. fellow sciart-L's - here is a communication for you!  I will send
her the sciart-L address.  Elaine
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Dear Mss. Hodges:
                  I am really ashamed, because it has taken me so long to
answer your last letter. I have been overloaded with work and with personal
problems. I am very grateful for the material you sent us. It is interesting
and useful. I am sending you some examples of our work and i am eager to hear
your comments about them. There have been many conversations lately about the
convenience of using computers for scientific illustration. I would like to
know about the advantages and disadvantages of computer-generates
illustrations, as well as about the hard-, software and training needed. Who
do you think that could give me this information? Is there anyone at the
Smithsonian doing this kind of work? May I have his or hers E-mail address?
 As always, I am very thankful to you,
                                        Silvia Troyo
From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 19 11:08:15 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: hello!

Elaine,
I have a staff position at the University of Nebraska State Museum and work
under a "Work for hire" contract. I work for all divisions of the museum,
which include Anthropology, Botany, Entomology, Invert. Paleo., Vert Paleo,
Parasitology, and Zoology. This keeps me on my toes!!I'm going to try to
find out about the list subscribers, and I'll keep you posted!Thanks for
the great question and forwarding the info. from Silvia Troyo- that's what
we are here for!!!

Any news on what's exciting for next years meeting in DC???
Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 19 11:29:04 1995
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To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: Re: 

Dear Silvia,
Well, I'm a self trained computer nerd!I do mostly graphic style
illustrations using a Powermac and Adobe Illustrator, Streamline, Ophoto,
and Photoshop(a little).I do graphs, maps, charts, diagrams, slides,
overheads, and labeling using the computer. I really think it is a
wonderful tool!I also scan in my own illustrations and label them on the
computer and with some desktop publishing tools and ...voila- my own
publication!!I think many people are weary of this technology, but I view
it as just another medium. Some people have a great knack for it, some
don't. I don't have the knack for oil painting, but I appreciate it!And
wish I could do it! I think computer illustrations are very important and
useful, but I also feel that its not for everyone!!Just like oil painting
isn't for everyone.

One of the main advantages in computer illustrations is that they are soooo
easy to change. If the scientist wants a change in text, color, position,
etc. These are relatively easy to change. Where as in a more traditional
medium, the changes are much more difficult and the project often is
redrawn.This can be very time consumming!!

I am more curious as to what technical support questions you have about
hardware and software? I had to do all my research on what to invest in for
scientific illustrations using the computer, SO I think this is an
excellent forum for people to let YOU know what they bought and what they
think of the product!!FOR INSTANCE- how much RAM do you REALLY need, and
what software is user friendly, or user surly!!No use inventing the wheel
again!Sooooo, ask away!PLEASE- that exactly why we started this discussion
group!Looking forward to hearing from you!

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 19 10:35:12 1995
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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:35:12 -0600
To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Doug Yanega)
Subject: Re: computer illustration

>There have been many conversations lately about the
>convenience of using computers for scientific illustration. I would like to
>know about the advantages and disadvantages of computer-generates
>illustrations, as well as about the hard-, software and training needed. Who
>do you think that could give me this information? Is there anyone at the
>Smithsonian doing this kind of work? May I have his or hers E-mail address?
> As always, I am very thankful to you,
>                                        Silvia Troyo

One thing I've been dealing with lately is using scanned digitized images
for publication rather than photographs - it makes things considerably more
flexible, and (if done in volume) a lot cheaper. So cheap, in fact, that I
suspect that it may well reduce the demand for habitus illustrations, as it
becomes more commonplace. For a field guide I'm writing and illustrating,
we had originally thought to have some 400 black & white drawings, but when
we found out that with digitized images you can make your *own* color
separations (one of the most costly steps in color printing), it turned out
we could easily handle 32 color plates with over 400 images in a 200-page
book and still keep the printing costs within a very small budget, for a
cover price under 10 dollars. It wouldn't surprise me if that kind of
facility using real images puts a small dent in the market, at least for
insects, mollusks, and other such things for which a photo is as good as an
illustration. If you work in black & white, it might be even more likely to
be a significant thing; when you can scan a color slide for a buck, get a
file that converts to black & white, and set it directly on the page along
with the text, you're talking about including a photo without paying any
extra printing costs, and the cost of taking the slide, scanning it, and
converting it is certainly going to be less than having an illustration
made. As it is, I can take a scanned color image and with two clicks I can
turn it into a stippled image of publication quality, virtually zero labor
compared to what I'd have needed to get that far by hand. That's why I'm
doing my best to become acquainted with the technology, because knowing how
to manipulate digitized images seems likely to become a necessary adjunct
skill to being able to illustrate.
Cheers,

Doug Yanega       Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr.
Champaign, IL 61820 USA      phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949
 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology
  "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
        is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82


From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 20 05:45:38 1995
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 10:45:38 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Which computer to Buy

Dear Sylvia,

The proper way to decide what to buy is to first consider which programs will do 
what you want to do, and how much you have to spend.  Then pick the appropriate 
hardware to do the job.  The other consideration is what sort of computer 
communtity you are connected with, or can get connected with.  By this I mean 
When you have a problem with your hardware or software,  who can you turn to?

In the Graphic Arts community there are some programs that will work well for 
printed matter  and some that are a pain for service shops and printers to 
handle.

MY OPINION
A professional set of tools for a graphic publisher that won't cause heart burn 
for the printer is:

Photoshop (bit map art)
Illustrator (line  based art/ some people will swear by Freehand for this)
Type 1 fonts
QuarkXpress (a layout program to bring your text and graphics together/ 
            Pagemaker will become much stronger so this is an OK alternative as  
            well)

While there are less expensive alternative programs, you will find that mobility 
of material to your collegues will decrease the more esoteric your programs 
become.  The above advice is like saying "buy IBM stock". You know it will work, 
but there are cheaper ways that will be usable, if you are in certain 
situations.  Generally, the more independant your whole production process is, 
the more you can vary your software setup.  And specialized needs call for 
specialized software.  CAD (Computer Added Design), Multimedia, Video, all 
require special software and hardware, and could effect your choice of 
platforms.

You have several hardware platforms to choose from:

If you are doing standard graphic arts (including science art), and are 
relativly isolated from techniqual support, and are new to computers: a 
Macintosh is the only way to go.  It is the ony machine the average artist 
stands a chance of maintaining and expanding on their own, plus to is the 
machine of choice for a large portion of the graphic arts community.

If you are in a situation of having DOS/Windows experience or That type of 
techniqal support available to you, then all those programs are available for 
that platform.

If you are into Video, you might look at the Amiga (which is I believe being 
produced again. It is a very niche machine and compeates on price, But does it 
have a future?

If you need real speed and power unending, and a budget to match, then Silicon 
graphics is your buy (the machine of choice in Hollywood and high-end multimedia 
work)

Britt Griswold
Goddard Space Flight Center
[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 
From:    <[log in to unmask]> at Internet
Date:    9/19/95  5:44 PM

Dear Silvia,
Well, I'm a self trained computer nerd!I do mostly graphic style
illustrations using a Powermac and Adobe Illustrator, Streamline, Ophoto,
and Photoshop(a little).I do graphs, maps, charts, diagrams, slides,
overheads, and labeling using the computer. I really think it is a
wonderful tool!I also scan in my own illustrations and label them on the
computer and with some desktop publishing tools and ...voila- my own
publication!!I think many people are weary of this technology, but I view
it as just another medium. Some people have a great knack for it, some
don't. I don't have the knack for oil painting, but I appreciate it!And
wish I could do it! I think computer illustrations are very important and
useful, but I also feel that its not for everyone!!Just like oil painting
isn't for everyone.

One of the main advantages in computer illustrations is that they are soooo
easy to change. If the scientist wants a change in text, color, position,
etc. These are relatively easy to change. Where as in a more traditional
medium, the changes are much more difficult and the project often is
redrawn.This can be very time consumming!!

I am more curious as to what technical support questions you have about
hardware and software? I had to do all my research on what to invest in for
scientific illustrations using the computer, SO I think this is an
excellent forum for people to let YOU know what they bought and what they
think of the product!!FOR INSTANCE- how much RAM do you REALLY need, and
what software is user friendly, or user surly!!No use inventing the wheel
again!Sooooo, ask away!PLEASE- that exactly why we started this discussion
group!Looking forward to hearing from you!

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]



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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 

From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 20 05:55:26 1995
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 10:55:26 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re[2]: computer illustration

This is great as long as you are not settling for inferior results.  Photo CD is 
good, but not Great scan quality. And Good quality imagry is BIG storage wise. 
And as long as you are a great photographer, and you have a beautiful specimen 
that shows exactlly what you want (in an atractive way) then you have eliminated 
the Illustration need. But If you don't have all those factors, you are 
settleing for inferionr quality. 
PS watchout for your color control on those electronic images

Britt Griswold
GSFC
[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________________________

One thing I've been dealing with lately is using scanned digitized images
for publication rather than photographs - it makes things considerably more
flexible, and (if done in volume) a lot cheaper. So cheap, in fact, that I
suspect that it may well reduce the demand for habitus illustrations, as it
becomes more commonplace. For a field guide I'm writing and illustrating,
we had originally thought to have some 400 black & white drawings, but when
we found out that with digitized images you can make your *own* color
separations (one of the most costly steps in color printing), it turned out
we could easily handle 32 color plates with over 400 images in a 200-page
book and still keep the printing costs within a very small budget, for a
cover price under 10 dollars. It wouldn't surprise me if that kind of
facility using real images puts a small dent in the market, at least for
insects, mollusks, and other such things for which a photo is as good as an
illustration. If you work in black & white, it might be even more likely to
be a significant thing; when you can scan a color slide for a buck, get a
file that converts to black & white, and set it directly on the page along
with the text, you're talking about including a photo without paying any
extra printing costs, and the cost of taking the slide, scanning it, and
converting it is certainly going to be less than having an illustration
made. As it is, I can take a scanned color image and with two clicks I can
turn it into a stippled image of publication quality, virtually zero labor
compared to what I'd have needed to get that far by hand. That's why I'm
doing my best to become acquainted with the technology, because knowing how
to manipulate digitized images seems likely to become a necessary adjunct
skill to being able to illustrate.
Cheers,

Doug Yanega       Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr.
Champaign, IL 61820 USA      phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949
 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology
  "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
        is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82



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To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: computer illustration

From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 20 08:18:39 1995
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Date:         Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:18:39 EDT
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re:
To: Polly <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:38:17 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Just in case Silvia has not yet subscribed to sciart-l, I have forwarded
your message to her at [log in to unmask]
  Do you know if she is on the sciart list yet?











Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 21 05:08:31 1995
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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 10:08:31 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Book Service on the World Wide Web

My wife Came across an a book ordering service available on the World Wide Web. 
I think it is why they invented the Web.  They even list The Guild Handbook of 
Natural Science Illuatration, and say it is out of print currently, but check 
back as it may be in print again soon.  You can fill a shopping cart with books 
of you liking and the computer will suggest other choices based on whats in the 
cart! Below is their come on ad.
______________________________________________________________________________
If it's in print, it's in stock. 

    Earth's biggest river surges with ten times the volume of the next mightiest 
river. And, in keeping with its namesake, Amazon.com Books offers over one 
million titles, more than five times as many titles as you'll find at even the 
largest Barnes & Noble, Borders, or other chain superstores. The good and the 
bad, the hard-to-find and the easy-to-find -- our goal is to carry every book in 
print, all available for immediate delivery. 

      30% off bestsellers. 10% off hardcovers. 10% off paperbacks. Every day. 

       Unlike traditional bookstores, we don't have to warehouse our books in 
expensive retail real estate and our operations are largely automated. So we're 
able to offer consistently low prices.

Web address:

http://www.amazon.com/
 ______________________________________________________________________________
Britt Griswold
Goddard Space Flight Center
[log in to unmask]



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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 

From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 21 04:59:32 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: OK!!

Greetings all SciArt-L-ers!!

I have a list of all subscribers and their email addresses!If you DON'T
want your email address and name posted to the list PLEASE let me know by
personal email!in the next day or so. Otherwise, I'll answer Elaine's
question as to who has subscribed to the list!Seems fair to me!Cheers,
Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 21 04:37:56 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Silvia Troyo)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: 
Cc: 

SUBSCRIBE SCIART-L Silvia Troyo



From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 21 08:54:05 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: HELP!

OK, SciArt-ers,
I need your help!I have a list of people to send info. about our listserv
to over the internet, but their email address are wrong!SO if you know
these people OR if you have their email addresses- would you forward them
to me!!Thanks!Polly
:)

Katherine Decker Johnson
Virge Kask
Jane Axamethy

THANKS!

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 21 12:39:00 1995
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Date:         Thu, 21 Sep 95 16:39:00 EDT
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Book Service on the World Wide Web
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:42:07 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

The Guild Handbook of Scientific Illustration is back in print and in
the VNR (Van Nostrand Reinhold) warehouse.  Cheapest way to get it is
thru GNSI.  This should be the third printing, but I am waiting for a
copy to see if that is what actually was printed.  List price is
$104.95; I think GNSI still sells it for $80.00.









Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 21 12:59:01 1995
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Date:         Thu, 21 Sep 95 16:59:01 EDT
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: HELP!
To: Polly <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:50:10 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

I don't have their e-mail addresses, but Katharine Decker Johnson's
home phone is 510-455-5655, fax: 510-606-1335 - at least according to
her stationery.  What is in the directory is the fax number listed as
work number.  Axamethy and Kask have phone and fax numbers in the
Guild directory.  It may be necessary to call and get their correct
e-mail addresses.








Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 21 11:13:26 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)

THANKS Elaine!

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 21 13:08:41 1995
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Date:         Thu, 21 Sep 95 17:08:41 EDT
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Sale of Cronaflex
To: [log in to unmask]

As you know, Dupont no longer makes Cronaflex.  The Smithsonian, by
mistake, bought about 60 rolls to go to an African Museum.  When it was
discovered that this was a ridiculously large amount, most of the rolls
were shipped back to the U.S.  The office that got caught with the bill
(not federal money, by the way, but private trust funds were involved)
wants to sell these rolls to try to get back some of their money. So in
unfortunately complicated govt. fashion, the rolls are being auctioned
in lots of 16 rolls each.
  Rolls of UC-4 (4 mils thick) are 150 ft by 4 ft wide (or high) and
the few rolls of UC-7 (7 mils thick) are 100 ft by 4 ft.  Lot #1 has
2 rolls of UC-7 and 14 rolls of UC-4,
  Lot #2 has 1 roll of UC-7 and 15 rolls of UC-4.
  Lot #3 has 2 rolls of UC-7 and 14 rolls of UC-4.
You must bid on an entire lot and the minimum bid, tho advertised at
$1,000.00 for the lot, is really about $3000.00, meaning the office
wants at least $3,500 per lot or will withdraw from the auction.  I
don't know how shipping is to be arranged.
  "Bids must be received in sealed envelopes not later than 2 pm on
October 4, 1995.  Clearly mark the envelope "Bid on Cronaflex trace film"
AND NOTE THE SPECIFIC LOT NUMBER OR NUMBERS YOU ARE BIDDING ON.  Please
mail bids to the Smithsonian Institution, 955 L'Enfant Plaza, Suite P-114,
S.W., Washington, D.C. 20560, Attention: Joseph Swihart.  Highest
acceptable bid will be notified."
  "Terms:  Cash or certified check made payable to SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION.
Payment must be made and equipment must be removed by the successful
bidder within 14 calendar days after notification of acceptance of bid."
  "The Smithsonian reserves the right to reject any or all offers and to
waive informalities and minor irregularities in offers received.  In
case of identical bids, owner will be determined by drawing."
  "If you have any questions regarding this sale please contact
Mr. Joseph Swihart on 202-287-3346."

Perhaps a few people can get together to buy the film.









Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 21 13:05:10 1995
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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 18:05:10 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sale of Cronaflex

Perhaps the Guild should go into the mail-order business and supply Cronaflex. 
That way, all of Guild Handbook technique chapters will not have to be revised 
for another decade or so.

(This is only half in jest).
Britt Griswold


_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sale of Cronaflex
From:    <[log in to unmask]> at Internet
Date:    9/21/95  5:35 PM

As you know, Dupont no longer makes Cronaflex.  The Smithsonian, by
mistake, bought about 60 rolls to go to an African Museum.  When it was
discovered that this was a ridiculously large amount, most of the rolls
were shipped back to the U.S.  The office that got caught with the bill
(not federal money, by the way, but private trust funds were involved)
wants to sell these rolls to try to get back some of their money. So in
unfortunately complicated govt. fashion, the rolls are being auctioned
in lots of 16 rolls each.
  Rolls of UC-4 (4 mils thick) are 150 ft by 4 ft wide (or high) and
the few rolls of UC-7 (7 mils thick) are 100 ft by 4 ft.  Lot #1 has
2 rolls of UC-7 and 14 rolls of UC-4,
  Lot #2 has 1 roll of UC-7 and 15 rolls of UC-4.
  Lot #3 has 2 rolls of UC-7 and 14 rolls of UC-4.
You must bid on an entire lot and the minimum bid, tho advertised at
$1,000.00 for the lot, is really about $3000.00, meaning the office
wants at least $3,500 per lot or will withdraw from the auction.  I
don't know how shipping is to be arranged.
  "Bids must be received in sealed envelopes not later than 2 pm on
October 4, 1995.  Clearly mark the envelope "Bid on Cronaflex trace film"
AND NOTE THE SPECIFIC LOT NUMBER OR NUMBERS YOU ARE BIDDING ON.  Please
mail bids to the Smithsonian Institution, 955 L'Enfant Plaza, Suite P-114,
S.W., Washington, D.C. 20560, Attention: Joseph Swihart.  Highest
acceptable bid will be notified."
  "Terms:  Cash or certified check made payable to SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION.
Payment must be made and equipment must be removed by the successful
bidder within 14 calendar days after notification of acceptance of bid."
  "The Smithsonian reserves the right to reject any or all offers and to
waive informalities and minor irregularities in offers received.  In
case of identical bids, owner will be determined by drawing."
  "If you have any questions regarding this sale please contact
Mr. Joseph Swihart on 202-287-3346."

Perhaps a few people can get together to buy the film.









Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]

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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Sale of Cronaflex

From [log in to unmask] Sat Sep 23 04:26:43 1995
Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by crcnis1.unl.edu with SMTP id AA29606
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From: "Kristine A. Kirkeby" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HELP!
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 09:26:43 -0500

In message <[log in to unmask]>  writes:
> OK, SciArt-ers,
> I need your help!I have a list of people to send info. about our listserv
> to over the internet, but their email address are wrong!SO if you know
> these people OR if you have their email addresses- would you forward them
> to me!!Thanks!Polly
> :)
> 
> Katherine Decker Johnson
> Virge Kask   - [log in to unmask]
> Jane Axamethy
> 
> THANKS!
> 
> Pauline Denham
> Museum Artist
> University of Nebraska State Museum
> [log in to unmask]

Polly...see Virge's...I sent a message to her and didn't get anything back 
saying it didn't go through.  Also I sent an e-mail to a bunch of people about 
the list and it seems (surprise, surprise the way my life is now...) I typed in 
a lower case "L" which some people read as 1 or I etc.  So ...they are-
 
Brown-Thompson      [log in to unmask]
CaudleA       [log in to unmask]
GriswoldB        [log in to unmask]
HodgesE        [log in to unmask]
IppolitoF        [log in to unmask]
KastV       [log in to unmask]
KlitzK k       [log in to unmask]
ParrishM        [log in to unmask]
RyanM         [log in to unmask]
Simpson         [log in to unmask]
SpringMJ        [log in to unmask]
MirochaP        [log in to unmask]
TeramuraK        [log in to unmask]
The name in front is just my e-mail address notation

Frank got back to me about it.  I also got back an invalid address thing from 
the listserv saying KRISTINE was wrong...I don't know...We'll iron it all out 
Digit to ya soon!  Kris.

> 
> 


Kristine A. Kirkeby Voice 612-647-9532 Fax 612-647-0158

From [log in to unmask] Mon Sep 25 03:41:40 1995
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 08:41:40 CDT
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: INFO- to pass on!

Goood morning SciArt-L er's,
I've had a lot of questions as to EXACLY how should we be using this
listserv. Well, you already know how to subscribe. To send a message to be
posted on the listserv, you sould email this address   [log in to unmask]

With a message that you would like to post to the list!For example, if you
are trying to find someone's email address (not yet in the GNSI directory),
just email the list and we (participants of the list) will pass the info
along!

In keeping with the mood and general good nature of GNSI, this is a
friendly, educational tool that people can use to find ANY information
concerning GNSI and scientific Illustration! If you would like to announce
job openings, new techniques, great articles that you think we should read,
materials that are hard to find, information concerning chapter or national
meetings!We welcome them all!This is a moderated list, so we will be able
to filter out any unwanted messages that may be inappropriate or flaming!

Oh, that raises another question!Do you all know what flaming is????Well,
on the internet, the term FLAME refers to going OFF on someone over the
internet!NOT something we want on this listserv!So all flame messages will
be disapproved or revised, before they will be approved and sent off to the
list. I doubt that we will have a problem with this (considering the good
nature and the positive atmosphere of the Guild), but just incase!
Forwarned!

General discussions like the disadvantages and advantages of computers in
illustration are also welcome. I know I enjoy reading other people's point
of view of the issues that our profession is concerned with!So, lets have
them!!

I hope this clears up the air on a few things!Also, at the end of the day,
I'll be posting the list of subscribers to SciArt-L!!Soooo, welcome
aboard!and Happy Listserving! heee  :)

Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 22 09:35:05 1995
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Date:         Fri, 22 Sep 95 13:35:05 EDT
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Sale of Cronaflex
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:21:13 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Good idea, Britt!  Contrary to what I announced in Flagstaff, I now
do not intend to start the revision until August, 1996, at the
earliest.
 Think you all could find a way to put Cronaflex thru your laser
printers?









Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Mon Sep 25 06:29:56 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: Case sensitivity questions!

Hello All!More questions and answers-

The software for this listserv is NOT case sensitive so,
if you type SciArt-L   it reads it the same as sciart-l. Just in case some
of you read the lower case L in SciArt-l as a number one. They look very
similar!!

Also, if you get an "invalid request" back from the listserv software. You
might check the spelling of your request OR send a message to
[log in to unmask] with the message "help". I have an automatic signature at
the end of my email. The listserv software HATES this, and I get invalid
requests from my signature!So, you mind turn off your signature when you
are sending mail to the address [log in to unmask]

[log in to unmask] is the address for help, subscribe, unsubscribe, digest-
this is NOT the address to post a message.

To post a message just reply to any given message you have recieved from
the list OR send an email to SciArt-L

You don't have to worry about signatures when you send a message to the
list with the address of SciArt-L to be posted.

This should give you a copy of all the commands and help commands for the
listserv software!

Good luck!And if you have any other questions please feel free to ask me!If
you hve a question, others might too!

Cheers, Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Mon Sep 25 06:33:02 1995
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 11:33:02 CDT
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To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: Re: Case sensitivity questions!

Ooops that address is [log in to unmask]
I'm a dork, sorry about not finishing the address!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Mon Sep 25 09:13:37 1995
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Date:         Mon, 25 Sep 95 13:13:37 EDT
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: INFO- to pass on!
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 25 Sep 1995 08:35:35 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

This is a great listserv and you are doing a wonderful job, Polly!
  I received today from Amy Bartlett Wright, GNSI member in Rhode Island,
a copy of National Wildlife Magazine, put out by Nat'l Wildlife
Federation, May 1995. It has an article by Les Line about artists who
write their own field guides - "Wildlife by the Book."  Featured first
are Amy ("Peterson First Guide to Caterpillars of North America") and
another GNSI artist, Vera McKnight ("A Field Guide to Mushrooms" by
her husband Kent McKnight with Vera's paintings.  Richard White, who
may not be a GNSI member now but was, is mentioned for his "Field Guide
to the Beetles of North America," but none of his pictures are reproduced.
Also included are Janet Wehr, another botanical artist ("A Field Guide to
Eastern Trees") and others.  I guess they all did not write their own
books, but John Douglass ("A Field Guide to Atlantic Coast Fishes") and
Roger Tory Peterson did so and also are featured.  Maybe listserv
members can look up this issue.













Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Mon Sep 25 11:20:57 1995
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 16:20:57 CDT
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: List of recipients

Here goes!!
Here is the current list of subscribers:

[log in to unmask]                          Pauline Denham
[log in to unmask]                             Elaine Hodges
[log in to unmask]                      Doug Yanega
[log in to unmask]                            Lana Johnson
[log in to unmask]                       Craig Fansler
[log in to unmask]                     John Nyquist
[log in to unmask]              Britt Griswold
[log in to unmask]                          Amy Ione
[log in to unmask]                              Geoff Read
[log in to unmask]                              Jim Hutchins
[log in to unmask]                               Lisa Bryant
[log in to unmask]                           H. Adam Steinberg
[log in to unmask]                  Claire Garrison
[log in to unmask]                                 Karen Marks
[log in to unmask]                       Kathryn Evans
[log in to unmask]                      Stacy A. Ciufo
[log in to unmask]                                    David Keszenman-pereyra
[log in to unmask]                      Silvia Troyo
[log in to unmask]                       Kris Kirkeby
[log in to unmask]                             Maureen Carey
[log in to unmask]                               Meindert De Jong
[log in to unmask]                    Joe Trumpey
[log in to unmask]                               Richard Gayle
[log in to unmask]                               Meredith Gregg
[log in to unmask]                      Leslie P. Gartner
[log in to unmask]                                Virge Kask
[log in to unmask]                         Rebecca Thompson
Total number of subscribers: 27

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 26 05:05:43 1995
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:05:43 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Case sensitivity questions!

Polly,

What does the term "digest" do  when you send it to [log in to unmask]

Britt
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Case sensitivity questions!
From:    <[log in to unmask]> at Internet
Date:    9/25/95  12:39 PM

Hello All!More questions and answers-

The software for this listserv is NOT case sensitive so,
if you type SciArt-L   it reads it the same as sciart-l. Just in case some
of you read the lower case L in SciArt-l as a number one. They look very
similar!!

Also, if you get an "invalid request" back from the listserv software. You
might check the spelling of your request OR send a message to
[log in to unmask] with the message "help". I have an automatic signature at
the end of my email. The listserv software HATES this, and I get invalid
requests from my signature!So, you mind turn off your signature when you
are sending mail to the address [log in to unmask]

[log in to unmask] is the address for help, subscribe, unsubscribe, digest-
this is NOT the address to post a message.

To post a message just reply to any given message you have recieved from
the list OR send an email to SciArt-L

You don't have to worry about signatures when you send a message to the
list with the address of SciArt-L to be posted.

This should give you a copy of all the commands and help commands for the
listserv software!

Good luck!And if you have any other questions please feel free to ask me!If
you hve a question, others might too!

Cheers, Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]



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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Case sensitivity questions!

From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 26 04:11:14 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: digest

Great question Britt!!

Digest-
When you send this command to the [log in to unmask] address, it puts all the
daily mail from the listserv in ONE email message. So you'll have all the
daily email from the list in one message instead of a number of them. This
is great for BIG lists that have 20-40 messages per day. That way you can
just scan through them and don't have to open and delete 20-40 messages per
day!

You have to send the message

digest SciArt-L

Good Luck, Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 26 10:12:48 1995
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 16:12:48 -0600
To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Doug Yanega)
Subject: Re[2]: computer illustration

Britt Griswold wrote:

>This is great as long as you are not settling for inferior results.  Photo
>CD is
>good, but not Great scan quality. And Good quality imagry is BIG storage wise.
>And as long as you are a great photographer, and you have a beautiful specimen
>that shows exactlly what you want (in an atractive way) then you have
>eliminated
>the Illustration need. But If you don't have all those factors, you are
>settleing for inferionr quality.
>PS watchout for your color control on those electronic images

I've been playing around with this some more recently, and found out a few
things about the process. As long as the original photos are sharp, the
scanned images are at far higher resolution than they could ever need to be
printed, unless you intend to take a slide-sized image and blow it up to
poster size. THAT is where the limitation on scan technology becomes a
concern. As for having a "beautiful" specimen, that is a matter of
aesthetics; if you're describing a new organism, that could indeed be
essential, while for a field guide it may be less so, as long as the
diagnostic features are visible. In my recent project, I always tried hard
to find the nicest specimens, and then I even cleaned them off under a
microscope before photographing them; but sometimes, when you can only find
one or two specimens of a rare species, you have to work with what you've
got.
As for color control, there's something to watch out for if you use this
process: scanned slides tend to be a bit washed-out, due to the strong
light source of the scanner. I've had to increase the contrast on every one
of hundreds of images to adjust for this, but it's only a two-click
process. The only odd thing is that certain brown/orangey colors will
transform into *red* when the contrast is increased, and your warning about
"color control" is true - but in Photoshop, you can circle the area with
artificially intense reds, select *just* the reds, and then decrease their
saturation. One can actually pull all sorts of nifty tricks with commands
like that, including some very sophisticated false-color effects, though
this is naturally NOT what one does for a field guide...   ;-)
Incidentally, John Nyquist asked me to post how one converts a PhotoShop
color scan into an effectively "stippled" image in two clicks - one simply
changes from color format to grayscale, and then from grayscale to "bitmap"
(each is two clicks, actually, since you have to click "OKAY" in both
cases). The default option for bitmap dithering is a diffuse pattern of
black stipples on white (and white stipples on black), and is the
nicest-looking version you can get from a scan when restricted to
high-contrast black & white reproduction. Just another tool for the bag of
tricks...now if only Elaine would reveal the secrets of how to draw the
hairs on bees, my life would be complete. ;-)
Cheers,

Doug Yanega       Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr.
Champaign, IL 61820 USA      phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949
 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology
  "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
        is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82


From [log in to unmask] Tue Sep 26 13:29:55 1995
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 18:29:55 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re[3]: computer illustration

Your Enthusiasm for Photo CD is contagious.  I think it will be a real boon to 
low cost color reproduction.  But again I say you must be very carful in many 
respects.

1. 35mm Photo CD is  about 2000 x 3000 pixles, sufficent for a 13"x 9" printed 
picture at 150 line/inch (225dots/inch).  If you go bigger your sharpness will 
begin to go away.  This is plenty big enough for field guide use.

2. The photo CD format is not a "lossless" format. Information can get lost 
depending on how it is converted into Photoshop.  One problem is keeping 
highlight and shadow detail. It is difficult in a less than optimally lighted 
image.  This is a limitation of the format and the filtering software. The Photo 
CD scanners are suppose to capture, in its default mode, an exact representation 
of what is on the film.  I don't think an overly bright scanner light is causing 
the washed out effect. The washed out appearance of you initial importation into 
Photoshop is one I also get.  This is caused I believe by a mediocere conversion 
filter (the Kodak standard one).  Some of the High-end filter software converts 
the Photo CD scan directly into CMYK color space, and would be the most accurate 
way to move to a printing file. 


3.There also are some commercial filters in the Andromeda series 3 Photoshop 
plug-ins dedicated to creating realistic messotine effects for publication 
purposes.  I have not had a chance to try them, but I presume they would do a 
better job than turning a Greyscale image to a dithered bitmap, or they wouldn't 
be able to sell any of them.

Great to hear from you, and John Nyquist!

Britt Griswold
[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re[2]: computer illustration
From:    <[log in to unmask]> at Internet
Date:    9/26/95  5:16 PM

I've been playing around with this some more recently, and found out a few
things about the process. As long as the original photos are sharp, the
scanned images are at far higher resolution than they could ever need to be
printed, unless you intend to take a slide-sized image and blow it up to
poster size. THAT is where the limitation on scan technology becomes a
concern. As for having a "beautiful" specimen, that is a matter of
aesthetics; if you're describing a new organism, that could indeed be
essential, while for a field guide it may be less so, as long as the
diagnostic features are visible. In my recent project, I always tried hard
to find the nicest specimens, and then I even cleaned them off under a
microscope before photographing them; but sometimes, when you can only find
one or two specimens of a rare species, you have to work with what you've
got.
As for color control, there's something to watch out for if you use this
process: scanned slides tend to be a bit washed-out, due to the strong
light source of the scanner. I've had to increase the contrast on every one
of hundreds of images to adjust for this, but it's only a two-click
process. The only odd thing is that certain brown/orangey colors will
transform into *red* when the contrast is increased, and your warning about
"color control" is true - but in Photoshop, you can circle the area with
artificially intense reds, select *just* the reds, and then decrease their
saturation. One can actually pull all sorts of nifty tricks with commands
like that, including some very sophisticated false-color effects, though
this is naturally NOT what one does for a field guide...   ;-)
Incidentally, John Nyquist asked me to post how one converts a PhotoShop
color scan into an effectively "stippled" image in two clicks - one simply
changes from color format to grayscale, and then from grayscale to "bitmap"
(each is two clicks, actually, since you have to click "OKAY" in both
cases). The default option for bitmap dithering is a diffuse pattern of
black stipples on white (and white stipples on black), and is the
nicest-looking version you can get from a scan when restricted to
high-contrast black & white reproduction. Just another tool for the bag of
tricks...now if only Elaine would reveal the secrets of how to draw the
hairs on bees, my life would be complete. ;-)
Cheers,

Doug Yanega       Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr.
Champaign, IL 61820 USA      phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949
 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology
  "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
        is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82



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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: [log in to unmask] (Doug Yanega)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re[2]: computer illustration

From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 27 04:45:11 1995
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Date:         Wed, 27 Sep 95 08:45:11 EDT
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Re[2]: computer illustration
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 26 Sep 1995 16:14:35 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

How to draw hairs on bees:  if black on white use a fine pen or brush
(Hunt 104, Gillotte 659, Winsor & Newton Series 7 000), if white on black
use a knife or brush ( X-acto #16 blade or above 000 or comparable brush).
- depending on whether you are working on a surface/ground that permits
scratching and gives you a clean, sharp white scratch, otherwise white
paint and brush (or pen, if you can manage it) (Dr.Martin's Bleed Proof
White, F&W white ink, acrylic or gouache white, whatever works).  And
add a steady, light touch of the hand - not mouse.
  Note I do not use a computer for drawing.  Maybe someday. Everyone I
know who tries to do a habitus or even simpler drawings on the computer
admits it takes as long or longer as doing a comparable one by traditional
methods - except George, who won't admit this. I have forwarded your
message to George Venable and suggested he join this listserv.
  Regarding photography vs illustration: few invertebrate specimens are
in shape for decent results except for simple dorsal views of gross
appearance, like spread lepidoptera and pinned beetles, hemiptera. As you
say, Doug, this works for field guides.  However, keep in mind that the
drawings done of what looks like perfect specimens are done by turning
and twisting the quite imperfect one or more specimens to sketch under
camera lucida/grid/whatever parts in different/proper positions and then
combining these for a "perfect" specimen to be detailed and rendered.
  Even with macro specimens, like skulls, photography rarely picks up
important features. Paleo illustrators trying to use photography have
experimented and written about techniques using various powders to improve
reflection under the camera, to bring out features, as well as different
films, papers, and all the other variables that make photography maddening.
Scanning has some of this same variability. Printers tell me that the best
scanner operators are those who formerly were camera operators - and the
ability to get a good scan is dependent on the person operating the scanner
as much as the quality of the scanner itself.
  By the way, I have set up a forum on preparing art for new technology
at the Smithsonian - Thursday, November 2, 1995, around 9 am, maybe 9:30
to around 11:30 - noon or so, National Museum of Natural History,
Learning Center Rooms B & C (ground floor, near 10th & Constitution Ave,
N.W. entrance).  Panel will include Diane Tyler, head of Smithsonian Series
(federal research publications); Alan Burchell, head of SI production,
federal; Ken Sable, head of SI production, private side (publications that
are sold, produced with private funds, but sometimes authored by SI scientists)
; Julie Rinke, head of Allen Press art dept/electronic publishing; Guy
Dresser, Allen Press VP and involved with pricing and electronic publishing;
and possibly a representative of the current (low bidder) SI printer.
   I am aiming this at scientists and scientific illustrators plus those
like technicians who prepare art work for scientific publications at the
SI (Smithsonian Institution).  When I have more precise details, i will
send it on Listserv in case any of you are coming to D.C. that week. It
will be publicized in the Museum various ways.
  At the GNSI mtg in D.C. in 1996 I hope we will repeat this panel, perhaps
with a few different people and with the problems/technology at that time.
I'll submit the idea for approval by the program committee.







Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 27 05:04:29 1995
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:04:29 CDT
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: Info to pass on!


>Goood morning SciArt-L er's,
>I've had a lot of questions as to EXACLY how should we be using this
>listserv. Well, you already know how to subscribe. To send a message to be
>posted on the listserv, you sould email this address   [log in to unmask]
>
>With a message that you would like to post to the list!For example, if you
>are trying to find someone's email address (not yet in the GNSI directory),
>just email the list and we (participants of the list) will pass the info
>along!
>
>In keeping with the mood and general good nature of GNSI, this is a
>friendly, helpful, educational tool that people can use to find ANY information
>concerning GNSI and scientific Illustration! If you would like to announce
>job openings, new techniques, great articles that you think we should read,
>materials that are hard to find, information concerning chapter or national
>meetings!We welcome them all!This is a moderated list, so we will be able
>to filter out any unwanted messages that may be inappropriate or flaming!
>
>Oh, that raises another question!Do you all know what flaming is????Well,
>on the internet, the term FLAME refers to going OFF on someone over the
>internet!NOT something we want on this listserv!So all flame messages will
>be disapproved or revised, before they will be approved and sent off to the
>list. I doubt that we will have a problem with this (considering the good
>nature and the positive atmosphere of the Guild), but just incase!
>Forwarned!
>
>General discussions like the disadvantages and advantages of computers in
>illustration are also welcome. I know I enjoy reading other people's point
>of view of the issues that our profession is concerned with!So, lets have
>them!!
>
>I hope this clears up the air on a few things!Also, at the end of the day,
>I'll be posting the list of subscribers to SciArt-L!!Soooo, welcome
>aboard!and Happy Listserving! heee  :)
>
>Polly
>
>Pauline Denham
>Museum Artist
>University of Nebraska State Museum
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 27 05:09:55 1995
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:09:55 -0500
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (H. Adam Steinberg)
Subject: Re: PhotoCD and list etiquette

>Your Enthusiasm for Photo CD is contagious.  I think it will be a real boon to
>low cost color reproduction.  But again I say you must be very careful in many
>respects.

The biggest problem with PhotoCD is finding a quality place to get your
work done. Anyone can do PhotoCD, just like anyone can do C-41 processing
(say local supermarkets). The cheapest place you find to get it done may
turn out to be exactly that, cheap. We personally are very fortunate to
have the service offered on campus with very high quality control.

Dust, hair, scratches, terrible highlights/contrasts/shadows or horrific
color balance can easily show up on what you thought were perfect images
(ie. they were perfect images on film and the photoCD processor scewed them
up). Make sure you send the same couple of negs to a few places for imaging
before you decide on a permanent vendor as every one will scan them
differently.

There are great PhotoCD vendors out there, ya just have to find them.

--------------------------------------------------
Since this is a new list and many of the subscribers are new to "this list
format" I'm going to be forward and offer a few suggestions...

Please update the subject heading of every message you send to the list, as
you want it to accurately reflect what you are posting. Please do not
repost the entire message of the person you are repling to, just the part
you want to reply to. You will find these lists to be very contagious, as
there are lists for Photoshop, illustrator, Quark, DTP, Photography,
Photo-CD, etc, etc. (if you want I can post a list of all the current lists
out there) Many people are on a large number of lists and don't have time
to read through thousands of messages that they are not interested in or
can not answer.  Most of them use filters with Eudora to dump messages they
don't want to read as DIgest mode takes to long.

Boy, I just re-read what I wrote above and it sounds kinda pompus..., why
should you care about people who want to use their time reading so many
lists... The only answer I can give is, these people are usually well
versed in a variety of subjects from those various lists and you want to
keep them on your list to help answer your questions.

---------------------------------------------------

Thanks,
Adam

 _______________________________________________________________________
   H. Adam Steinberg      Media Lab   Artist   University of Wisconsin
   ------------------------------------------------------------------
 [log in to unmask]  608/262-0622  420 Henry Mall  Madison, WI 53706
_________________________________________________________________________
 ;^),   isn't the internet just like a dream? ya' gotta' love it!   (^:
 _______________________________________________________________________


From [log in to unmask] Fri Jul 15 12:06:13 1988
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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1988 17:06:13 -0500
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To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Marks)
Subject: listserv lists

I didnt think you sounded that pompus....

I would be interested in reviewing the list of listservs you mentioned.

Thanks
Karen Marks
Slide Curator, Bat Conservation Intl
Austin, Tx.  
email:  [log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 27 05:37:11 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (H. Adam Steinberg)
Subject: Re: Hairs on bees and digital art

>How to draw hairs on bees:

Use the finger tool (smudge tool) in Photoshop, set it... Normal/80%
pressure/finger painting clicked. Play with it and you should find it works
great. Or you can also use a digitizing table with pressure support, even
easier.


>Everyone I
>know who tries to do a habitus or even simpler drawings on the computer
>admits it takes as long or longer as doing a comparable one by traditional
>methods

We do everything digitally in our lab, with a multitude of different
scanners, film recorders, high end computers, dye-sub and fugi printers. It
was very hard to switch over and took many long hours (weeks, months) of
learning. It costs many dollars to set up and the equipment always seems
outdated, but our turn-around-time went from weeks to days and if our
clients want it in a hour we can get it done. I guess the moral is... if
you have the money and knowledgeable people to run it, it can work.

>Printers tell me that the best
>scanner operators are those who formerly were camera operators - and the
>ability to get a good scan is dependent on the person operating the scanner
>as much as the quality of the scanner itself.

AMEN! I've seen many  scans, coming from good operators on poor equipment,
that look better than scans from high end equipment and bad operators


Adam

 _______________________________________________________________________
   H. Adam Steinberg      Media Lab   Artist   University of Wisconsin
   ------------------------------------------------------------------
 [log in to unmask]  608/262-0622  420 Henry Mall  Madison, WI 53706
_________________________________________________________________________
 ;^),   isn't the internet just like a dream? ya' gotta' love it!   (^:
 _______________________________________________________________________


From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 27 08:06:32 1995
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	id AA26790; Wed, 27 Sep 95 13:06:33 CDT
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 13:06:32 CDT
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: more info conccerning the listserv

Hello All!More questions and answers-

The software for this listserv is NOT case sensitive so,
if you type SciArt-L   it reads it the same as sciart-l. Just in case some
of you read the lower case L in SciArt-l as a number one. They look very
similar!!

Also, if you get an "invalid request" back from the listserv software. You
might check the spelling of your request OR send a message to
[log in to unmask] with the message "help". I have an automatic signature at
the end of my email. The listserv software HATES this, and I get invalid
requests from my signature!So, you mind turn off your signature when you
are sending mail to the address [log in to unmask]

[log in to unmask] is the address for help, subscribe, unsubscribe, digest-
this is NOT the address to post a message.

To post a message just reply to any given message you have recieved from
the list OR send an email to SciArt-L

You don't have to worry about signatures when you send a message to the
list with the address of SciArt-L to be posted.

This should give you a copy of all the commands and help commands for the
listserv software!

Good luck!And if you have any other questions please feel free to ask me!If
you hve a question, others might too!

Cheers, Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 27 11:04:02 1995
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 16:04:02 CDT
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: CCUMC Fair Use Guidelines

I read VRA's list and this might be of interest to those of you using
Multimedia stuff!I found it very interesting!We had a discussion of
copyright and fair use policies in Flagstaff!Enjoy!Polly




>Date:         Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:17:23 CDT
>Reply-To: Visual Resources Association <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: Visual Resources Association <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Eric P Dean <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject:      CCUMC Fair Use Guidelines
>To: Multiple recipients of list VRA-L <[log in to unmask]>
>
>Hello all;
>
>Here are the Consortium of College and University Media Centers Fair Use
>Guidelines for Educational Multimedia that were presented in the
>September 21, 1995 satellite video conference.  Special thanks to
>Assistant Curator, Susan Poague for typing the guidelines for the VRA
>list.
>
>Eric Dean
>Curator, Visual Resources Collection
>College of Design, Iowa State University
>
>
>The following is a DRAFT of the CCUMC Fair Use Guidelines.  Guidelines
>are NOT LAW and as a DRAFT these guidelines are still being refined.
>
>Panelists included:
>
>Ivan R. Bender     copyright attorney in private practice in Chicago
>
>Frank W. Connolly  Professor of Computer Science and Information Systems
>                   at The American University in Washington, DC
>
>Mary Levering      Associate Register for National Copyright Programs, U.S.
>                   Copyright Office
>
>Lisa Livingston    Chair, Government Regulations and Public Policy
>                   Committee of Consortium of College and University Media
>                   Centers
>
>Arnie Lutzker      Attorney, Fish and Richardson in Washington DC
>
>Gregg Mathis       Director of Educational Technology at Carnegie Mellon
>                   University
>
>Carol Risher       Vice President for Copyright and New Technology for the
>                   Association of American Publishers
>
>Judith Saffer      Assistant General Counsel for the Broadcast Music
>                   Industry
>
>Bernard R. Sorkin  senior counsel for Time Warner, Inc
>
>Joann Stevens      Vice President for Communications for the Association of
>                   American Colleges and Universities
>
>**********************************************************************
>
>A vhs video copy of the conference is available for $225.00 by sending
>your payment or PO along with your Name, Institution, Address, City,
>State, Zip, and phone to:
>
>CCUMC
>Consortium of College and University Media Centers
>121 Pearson Hall - MRC
>Iowa State University
>Ames, IA  50011-2203
>
>Tel: 515 294-1811
>Fax: 515 294-8089
>
>
>*********************************************************************
>
>
>DRAFT****DRAFT      CCUMC September 13, 1995      DRAFT****DRAFT
>
>
>To all members of the Consortium of College and University Media Centers
>(CCUMC) Fair Access Working Committee:
>
>Initially, this committee's members focused on examples of educational
>uses that appeared to fit within fair use.  Now we are at the point of
>actually developing guidelines.  The following guidelines have migrated
>from the earlier examples of educational multimedia fair use and are
>subject to further discussion at our next meeting on October 24, 1995.
>
>
>
>DRAFT     FAIR USE GUIDELINES FOR EDUCATIONAL MULTIMEDIA     DRAFT
>
>
>1)   STUDENT USE:
>Students may use portions of lawfully acquired copyrighted works in
>their academic multimedia programs, with proper attribution and
>citations. They may perform and display their program for educational
>purposes and may retain it in their personal portfolios as examples
>of their academic work for later appropriate uses such as job and
>graduate school applications.
>
>2)   INSTRUCTION IN MULTIMEDIA DEVELOPMENT:
>Educators may use portions of lawfully acquired copyrighted works in the
>course of face-to-face teaching activities to demonstrate to students
>how to create multimedia programs.
>
>3)   FACE-TO-FACE CURRICULUM-BASED INSTRUCTION:
>Educators may use portions of lawfully acquired copyrighted works in
>producing and using their own multimedia programs for their own teaching
>tools in support of an identified curriculum.
>
>4)   PEER CONFERENCES:
>Educators may perform or display their own multimedia programs created for
>their own curriculum-based instructional activities, which use portions
>of copyrighted works lawfully acquired by the educational institution,
>at workshops of their peers or a conference where educators are
>presenting works they created for their students.
>
>5)   REMOTE INSTRUCTION:
>Educators may use portions of lawfully acquired copyrighted works in
>producing their own multimedia educational programs to be used for
>curriculum-based instructional activities provided over an educational
>institution's electronic network, provided there are technological
>limitations on access to the network programs (such as a password or
>PIN) and on the total number of students enrolled.
>
>6)   TIME LIMITATIONS:
>Educators may use their own multimedia programs, containing portions of
>copyrighted works incorporated under fair use and developed for
>educational purposes, in teaching courses for a period of up to two
>years after completion of the finished multimedia product but use beyond
>that time period requires permission for each copyrighted portion
>incorporated in the production.
>
>7)   PORTION LIMITATION:
>Where portion restrictions appear elsewhere in the guidelines, the
>following limitations apply.
>
>7A  MOTION MEDIA
>Up to 10% or 3 minutes, which ever is less, in the aggregate of a
>copyrighted motion media work may be reproduced or otherwise
>incorporated as part of a multimedia program produced by an educator or
>student for educational purposes.
>
>7B TEXT MATERIAL
>Up to 10% or 1,000 words, which ever is less, in the aggregate of a
>copyrighted work consisting of text material may be reproduced or
>otherwise incorporated as part of a multimedia program produced by an
>educator or student for educational purposes.  In the case of a poem of
>less than 250 words, the entire poem may be used but no more than one
>poem by a poet or 5 poems from any anthology may be used.  For poems of
>greater length, 250 words may be used but no more than one poem by any
>poet or 5 poems from any anthology may be used.
>
>7C MUSIC
>Up to 10% of an individual copyrighted musical composition, or up to 10%
>of a copyrighted musical composition embodied on a sound recording may
>be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as part of a multimedia program
>produced by an educator or student for educational purposes.
>
>Notwithstanding the above, using more than 30 seconds of an individual
>copyrighted musical composition, or of an individual musical composition
>as embodied on a sound recording shall require permissions from the
>copyright owner or licensing collective.
>
>7D ILLUSTRATIONS AND PHOTOGRAPHS
>The reproduction or incorporation of photographs and illustrations is more
>difficult to define with regard to fair use because fair use usually
>precludes the use of entire works.  Under these guidelines a photograph
>or illustration may be used in its entirety but no more than 5 images of
>an artist or photographer may be incorporated into any one multimedia
>program.  When using photographs and illustrations from a published
>collective work, not more than 10% or 15 images, which ever is less, may
>be used in the multimedia program produced by an educator or student for
>educational purposes.
>
>7E COMPUTER SOFTWARE
>Yet to be discussed.
>
>EXAMPLES OF WHEN PERMISSION IS REQUIRED
>
>1)   Educators and students must seek individual permissions (licenses)
>before using copyrighted works in educational multimedia productions for
>commercial reproduction and distribution.
>
>2)   Even for educational purposes, educators and students must seek
>individual permissions for all copyrighted works incorporated in their
>personally created multimedia programs before replicating beyond one
>copy, distributing copies of the project or any portions thereof to
>others, or when producing such multimedia programs in collaboration with
>other educators for use beyond one educational institution.
>
>3)   Educators and students may not use their personally created
>educational multimedia programs over electronic networks to which access
>is uncontrolled without obtaining permissions for all copyrighted works
>incorporated in the program.
>
>IMPORTANT REMINDERS
>
>1)   Educators and students are advised to exercise caution in using
>digital material downloaded from the Internet in producing their own
>educational multimedia programs, because there is a mix of works
>protected by copyright and works in the public domain on the network.
>Access to works on the Internet does not automatically mean that these
>can be reproduced and reused without permission or royalty payment and,
>furthermore, some copyrighted works may have been posted to the Internet
>without authorization of the copyright holder.
>
>2)   Educators and students are reminded that proper attribution and
>credit with citations to sources must be noted for all copyrighted works
>included in all multimedia programs prepared by educators and students,
>including those prepared under fair use.
>
>3)   Educators and students are advised that they must include on the
>opening screen of their multimedia program and any accompanying print
>material a notice that certain materials are included under fair use
>exemption of the U.S. Copyright Law and have been prepared with the
>multimedia fair use guidelines and are restricted from further use.
>
>4)   Educators and students are advised to note that if there is a
>possibility that their own educational multimedia program incorporating
>copyrighted works under fair use could later result in either a widely
>disseminated or a commercial product, it is strongly recommended that
>they take steps to obtain permissions during the development process for
>all copyrighted portions rather than waiting until after completion of
>the program.
>
>5)   Copyright holders and other creators have serious concerns about
>the integrity of their original works.  Therefore educators and students
>are advised to exercise caution when making any alterations in a work,
>and must explicitly describe the nature of any changes they make to
>original creations when producing their own multimedia program, in order
>to respect the integrity of the original work.
>
>

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Wed Sep 27 09:02:32 1995
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 14:02:32 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re[2]: Hairs on bees and digital art

We do everything digitally in our lab, with a multitude of different
scanners, film recorders, high end computers, dye-sub and fugi printers. It
was very hard to switch over and took many long hours (weeks, months) of
learning. 

 H. Adam Steinberg      Media Lab   Artist   University of Wisconsin
   ------------------------------------------------------------------
 [log in to unmask]  608/262-0622  420 Henry Mall  Madison, WI 53706
_________________________________________________________________________
 ;^),   isn't the internet just like a dream? ya' gotta' love it!   (^:
 _______________________________________________________________________


Here at Goddard's graphics dept. We have had a lot of difficulty getting RGB 
scanned imagery combined with object art (Photoshop in Illustrator, Freehand, 
and Quark) to print with accurate color to High-resolution, Large format Color 
Negative film from our vendors.  Particularly the object art, which is based on 
the CMYK colorspace. Our vendors use Solitare 16K and Fire1000 Film recorders. 
We have had problems on both.

I know there are a many possible sources of error in the process.  I general, I 
beleive our inhouse product is good, we have printed 4-color work from it, with 
acceptable results.

If anyone has had similar experiences and solved them, I am looking for new 
avenues to explore.


[log in to unmask]

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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: [log in to unmask] (H. Adam Steinberg)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hairs on bees and digital art

From [log in to unmask] Thu Sep 28 03:43:06 1995
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 08:43:06 -0500
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <v02130501ac9013220192@[144.92.18.44]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (H. Adam Steinberg)
Subject: Re: (LONG POST) Graphic Art related listserv lists

>I would be interested in reviewing the list of listservs you mentioned.
-------------------------------------------------

  Comprehensive but not an exhaustive list of Mailing lists
  and Usenet newsgroups for DTP, Graphics and related
  subjects.
  Corrections and updates always welcome and should be
  forwarded to Alan King <[log in to unmask]> Correct
  as of 27 July 1995 - 8th revision.

  Enjoy,
  Alan King <[log in to unmask]>  Ph: +44 181 941 0409
  Fax Extension 10

  Thanks go to the following contributors;

  Cindy Stone <[log in to unmask]>
  who was the inspiration for expanding the listing she
  made available originally.

  Daniel Walker <[log in to unmask]>
  who has helped me keep this beast vibrant

  Chris Kim A <[log in to unmask]>
  for humour and support

  and everyone else who helped this on it's way

  Jay Boersma <[log in to unmask]>
  Graham Allsopp <[log in to unmask]>
  jacob reichbart <[log in to unmask]>
  Bill Leonard <[log in to unmask]>
  Michael Nibeck <[log in to unmask]>
  Mary O'Connor <[log in to unmask]>
  -------------------------------------------------

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-----------------------------------------


 _______________________________________________________________________
   H. Adam Steinberg      Media Lab   Artist   University of Wisconsin
   ------------------------------------------------------------------
 [log in to unmask]  608/262-0622  420 Henry Mall  Madison, WI 53706
_________________________________________________________________________
 ;^),   isn't the internet just like a dream? ya' gotta' love it!   (^:
 _______________________________________________________________________


From [log in to unmask] Mon Sep 28 10:15:27 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 28 Sep 1995 15:15:27 CDT
From: Simpson <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: help


Hello out there!

Can anyone help me with the following problem?  We have a IIfx with 8mb RAM 
running Sys.7.1.

Our utility program (Norton Utilities) warned me that the hard drive was really 
fragmented and I should "optimize" it.  So I backed everything up and ran 
SpeedDisk.  

But I got a message that areas of the disk were defective and that I should 
reformat.  Since I had complete backup on Syquest cartridges this was no big 
deal.

But after reformatting  (using La Cie's Silverlining) and reloading, I decided 
to run SpeedDisk again and I got the same message.  After two or three times I 
gave up.  Norton Disk Doctor does not see anything wrong with the hard drive, 
nor does Silverlining's Disk First Aid.

I have now rebuilt everything and do not particularly wish to run SpeedDisk 
again.

Does it sound like a hardware problem, a conflict, or what?


A second problem:  we have just gotten a Wacom pad (cool!) but do not see how to
get the pen's dialogue box to allow the <variable> option (it is <grayed>).

Can the great guru at goddard or anyone else help?

Thanks

-Clara
__________________________________________________________________
CLARA R. SIMPSON                   FIELD MUSEUM of NATURAL HISTORY
Illustrator                            Chicago, Illinois USA 60605
Department of Zoology                   Phone: (312) 922-9410 x620
available Wednesdays and Thursdays             Fax: (312) 663-5397
                                          email: [log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 29 04:27:05 1995
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From: "Kristine A. Kirkeby" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: List use
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 09:27:05 -0500

Hi people....I'm very excited by the list...so fun and I really like the 
diversity of how it is used by all of you...from greetings to problems/remarks 
about approaches.  This is great!  And a big thanks to Polly for helping us 
through the first moments of getting us all hooked up and online!!  Kris

Kristine A. Kirkeby Voice 612-647-9532 Fax 612-647-0158

From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 29 04:54:04 1995
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 09:54:04 -0500
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <v02130501ac916282f85c@[144.92.18.44]>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (H. Adam Steinberg)
Subject: Re: getting acurate color from a film recoder

>Here at Goddard's graphics dept. We have had a lot of difficulty getting RG=
B
>scanned imagery combined with object art (Photoshop in Illustrator, Freehan=
d,
>and Quark) to print with accurate color to High-resolution, Large format Co=
lor
>Negative film from our vendors.  Particularly the object art, which is
>based on
>the CMYK colorspace. Our vendors use Solitare 16K and Fire1000 Film recorde=
rs.
>We have had problems on both.
>
>I know there are a many possible sources of error in the process.  I
>general, I
>believe our inhouse product is good, we have printed 4-color work from it,
>with
>acceptable results.
>
>If anyone has had similar experiences and solved them, I am looking for new
>avenues to explore.

This is a tough one to get perfect and keep perfect. Rather than try and
explain each and every variable for each and every system configuration,
I'll just give you the general overview based on my experience and go from
there.

=46irst, there is no way to reproduce the vibrant colors, hues, and
saturation one can view on a monitor with any print type medium, there are
way too many changing variables and the inability of print mediums to
contain the same tonal range as video mediums. So shoot for coming close
rather than trying to be accurate.  One more avenue to try is the Fuji
Pictography 3000. This is a $20,000 printer that takes digital images and
outputs them directly color print paper. Very nice nearly accurate output
(there is a place in Chicago that will do this as a service if you don't
want to invest the big bucks, about $15/1st page).

Second, most of the operators of this type of equipment don't always,
exactly know what is going on... (modern business practices of trying to
make a living burdened with to much work, not enough employees to go
around, and not investing money in those people educations). Look for a
company that has a dedicated image person or better yet a person who's sole
job is to run that one piece of equipment. Ask them if the have read the
manuals, gone to training seminars, linked up with others performing their
jobs around the country.  Most that I have asked have failed this quiz
miserably.

Modern Film recorders can use a variety of film types. Make sure they are
using the film type you want as all of the different types will give
varying results. Example, most of the 35mm slide film recorders use
Ektachrome 100 PLUS for imaging slides. This will boost (enhance) standard
speaker slides with graphics, but make images of scenery, cross sections,
faces or organisms look over saturated.

Development of those slides or negs (E-6/C-41) is incredibly variable. We
have found that our hand processing yields much better results than any of
the machine processors in town. Printing those negatives is also just as
variable (I was a color print operator for 4 years). Go to the print lab
and tell them what you want as they print it.

Balance your monitor to match the film recorders output using the Gamma
control from Photoshop or a third party controller. Make your monitor match
the actual output from the device you are using. Get the "Classroom in a
book, Advanced Adobe Photoshop" and doit (that's a word now, right?). Check
the lighting you are viewing the output and input under. Try to always use
a 5000=B0K light source.

Learn as much as you can about the process and try and indicate to your
provider what you want your output to look like, as you are the one who
knows best.

If you have more questions or want more on any of the above, just ask. I
have to work now.

Oh, and... good luck,

Adam

 _______________________________________________________________________
   H. Adam Steinberg      Media Lab   Artist   University of Wisconsin
   ------------------------------------------------------------------
 [log in to unmask]  608/262-0622  420 Henry Mall  Madison, WI 53706
_________________________________________________________________________
 ;^),   isn't the internet just like a dream? ya' gotta' love it!   (^:
 _______________________________________________________________________


From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 29 05:34:13 1995
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:34:13 -0500
From: [log in to unmask] (Silvia Troyo)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Computer illustration 
Cc: [log in to unmask]

Dear SciArt-l ers:
                    My name is Silvia Troyo. I work as a botanical illustrator
at the Instituto Nacional de Biodiversidad (INBIO) in Costa Rica. Another two
artists work here, illustrating genitalia of insects. I have been asked about
the convenience of using computers todo our work, but so far my experience
with computer -illustration has been very limited. I would be very, very
thankful to those willing to share with me their experiences.
Here are some questions. ( I hope I am not asking to much!).
Why do you use it or why don't you use it? What are the advantages in terms of
quality, effort, time and money? What kind of illustrations are better done
with a computer? Do you feel that you achieve the same results with electronic
as with non-electronic methods? How much training did you need before could
pay the investment with the results?
I have some access to a Power Macintosh 7100/80,with 16 M Ram, a Nikkon
Coolscan, Sharp JX330 scanner, Wacom tablet 6x9", Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator
and Aldus Pagemaker. Do you think this equipment is enough to start? And if
the Instituto decided to switch to computer illustration, what kind of hard
and software would you recommend? Many people here want to take their own
photographs and convert them to illustrations, with the aid of computers. I am
a bit skeptical about this idea, because I think only few photographs meet the
standard of quality needed for this kind of work. Am I wrong? How much can you
improve the quality of photographs with the computer? Is ANYONE capable of
producing good illustrations (as well as clor separations) this way? I mean
people whithout  previous artistic or graphic skills or experience. Sometimes
I feel,many people assume that a computer is all you need to make you and
illustrator. Once Iwas told:"You and your colleagues belong to Medieval times.
Thanks to computers, you are going soon to be extinct. EVERYONE will be able
to be an artist!" Perhaps I am too touchy, but I felt hurt. For me the
computer is just another tool... 
Sorry, this letter is to long, but I feel like a child with a new toy using
Internet. Thanks in advance, 
                                  Silvia Troyo

PS: May I bother you again? Please send me samples of your work! Explain if
electronic or non -electronic produced.
I hope you understood my English !


From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 29 06:08:18 1995
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 11:08:18 CDT
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: Sylvia

Hi Sylvia,
Your written English is better than most college student's!!Don't worry
about that!And welcome aboard!I'm very pleased to have you on the list!Our
first international subscriber!YEAH!!About the computer versus more
traditional methods. Like I have said before (I don't think you had
subscribed at that point) computer generated illustrations are only as good
as the artist who creates them!!!I TOTALLY believe that!It is just another
wonderful tool.

I enjoy working with new technologies and its more of a glorified toy to
me!People learn HOW to use them, but if they don't have design skills and
artistic ability, then they might as well give up!!You HAVE to be an
"artist" to create on the computer!Artist is a relative term, but I have
seen MANY curators with the same software that I have put out some REALLY
awful graphs, charts, maps, and illustrations.I'm sure others will agree
with that one!I DO think that digital imagery has its place in production
and design. BUT with the given technology, I often combine hand drawn
illustrations with computer labeling and design. Its all in what YOU want
to do with it!!You really should decide what your needs are first.

I really think people need to be aware of the technologies that are
available today. Many universities are developing computer labs where
students and faculty can go and learn about computer graphics, desktop
publishing, educational software,  and multimedia tools. I think it is
wonderful!

I don't think that illustrators will become extinct!!Scientific
illustration and the ability to create photorealistic artwork is a TALENT
and I personally believe a marvelous wonder!!And I know for a fact, that
all artists CAN'T do it!And I'm kind of glad!We have filled a wonderful
niche-combining the worlds of art and science-PERFECTLY!!! You might be
dealing with some jealous people that would like THINK that just because
they have a computer with a graphics program on it that they are an
artist!!YOU are the artist!You create!the Scientist gives you the data,
specimen, whatnot and YOU CREATE!!To me, computers are wonderful tools,
much like Arches cold press paper,Grumbacher watercolors, with sable hair
brushes!!Instead of Arches paper and watercolors, you have printers...and
intead of brushes you have Wacom tablets and Adobe Illustrator software!Oh
and the colors NEVER come out the same as on the screen (my experience).
Sooo, yeeehaw for the real paint!

Well, enough soap-boxing for one day!Welcome aboard!I didn't answer your
technical questions, I think Britt and Doug might have a better handle on
the hardware than I!Sounds like you have a similar set up to me, and I like
mine!!You might want MORE RAM!!!Small RAM will drive you nuts once you
really start to get into this stuff!!

Great to hear from you and keep those questions coming!That's why we are
doing this!!!Cheers, Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 29 06:14:00 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re[2]:Graphic Art related listserv lists

If you want to subscribe to this list make sure you include your name after the
  SUBSCRIBE ILLSTRTR.

_____
Adobe Illustrator:
  Send:  [log in to unmask]
  >please send a message with the body of:
  SUBSCRIBE ILLSTRTR <your name>


[log in to unmask]

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Originator: [log in to unmask]
Errors-To: [log in to unmask]
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Sender: [log in to unmask]
Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: [log in to unmask] (H. Adam Steinberg)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: (LONG POST) Graphic Art related listserv lists

From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 29 07:52:14 1995
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 12:52:14 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re[2]:acurate color from a film recoder

There is no way to reproduce the vibrant colors, hues, and
saturation one can view on a monitor with any print type medium, there are
way too many changing variables and the inability of print mediums to
contain the same tonal range as video mediums. So shoot for coming close
rather than trying to be accurate.  One more avenue to try is the Fuji
Pictography 3000. This is a $20,000 printer that takes digital images and
outputs them directly color print paper.

Most of the operators of this type of equipment don't always,
exactly know what is going on... (modern business practices of trying to
make a living burdened with to much work, not enough employees to go
around, and not investing money in those people educations). Look for a
company that has a dedicated image person or better yet a person who's sole
job is to run that one piece of equipment. Ask them if the have read the
manuals, gone to training seminars, linked up with others performing their
jobs around the country.  Most that I have asked have failed this quiz
miserably.

Modern Film recorders can use a variety of film types. Make sure they are
using the film type you want as all of the different types will give
varying results. Example, most of the 35mm slide film recorders use
Ektachrome 100 PLUS for imaging slides. This will boost (enhance) standard
speaker slides with graphics, but make images of scenery, cross sections,
faces or organisms look over saturated.

Development of those slides or negs (E-6/C-41) is incredibly variable.

Balance your monitor to match the film recorders output using the Gamma
control from Photoshop or a third party controller. 

   H. Adam Steinberg     

 _______________________________________________________________________


Thanks for the advice.  

Heres anotherone for anyone outhere.

If a photoshop file prints fine to a printer, like a laserwriter or a 
Pictrography 3000. Then you put an EPS copy into Illustrator 5.5 to lable and 
add object art.  When you print the result out if Illustrator to the same 
printing devices, there are color and antialiasing changes to the placed EPS 
bitmap art in the result.

Has anyone else besides me had this experience?

[log in to unmask]

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Subject: Re: getting acurate color from a film recoder

From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 29 09:44:55 1995
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Subject: Re: <Long Reply> Computer illustration 

Dear Silvia:
                   
Glad to have you onboard!

Regarding you questions on computer art:
____________
1. Why do you use it or why don't you use it? 
    I come from a background of traditional graphic arts , with a strong 
interest in science.  I have be using Macintosh computers for 9 or 10 years. But 
only in the last 4 or 5 years has a significant part of my work been done on 
them.  Now I am working almost 100% on computer.  But the nature of my job has 
changed.  From being an Illustrator of specimen material, I now am more of an 
Art Director. I prepare presentations, book layouts, charts, maps, diagramatic 
things. Or I direct others to do it, but they do the work on the computer and 
then I have the full ability to change or modify their work if it dosen't meet 
my requirements.

    I use the computer as a wonderful mock-up tool to present very nice looking 
preliminary Ideas to clients (scientists).  Often the work can be completed from 
the computer, but sometimes it will move into the mor traditional realm.


____________
2. What are the advantages in terms of quality, effort, time and 
money? 

For the things mentioned above, the computer is unbeatable.  It is not 
unbeatable when drawing or painting specimens.  But once the drawing is done, 
the computer can do some amazing things to it.  So your final product may be 
electronic, even if major portions of it originat as a drawing or photograph.

I'm sure you know how often a scientist will change his mind on the labling of a 
chart, or the look of a map;about as ofthe as an advertising art director.  The 
only differences are that the art director will change his mind 4 times in two 
weeks and pay you for the changes, while the scientist will change his mind 4 
times over a two year period and have no money to pay for it.  In both cases the 
computer will save the day.  It can make changes quick (high power machines) or 
it can make them cheaply (no photostats required).

____________
3. What kind of illustrations are better done with a computer? 
yImages with lots of repeatability(ex.: multiple maps w/species ranges)
yImages that require mechanical smoothness (ex: airbrush work, diagrams, work 
slides, Intigration of images from multiple sources)
yAlmost any publishing job. (Ex: a Field Guide, or an online internet 
publication.
yArt the that will be going directly into someone elses computer.

These last two are closely connected, as most of our work is for publication, 
and often is assembled by us or someone else in a computer somewhere.  But 
knowing where to draw the line on traditional publishing techniques is the thing 
that comes with experience.

____________
4. Do you feel that you achieve the same results with electronic
as with non-electronic methods? 
    The Quality of the product can be exellent, if you know what you are doing.  
You need 600-1200dpi laser printers to get quite acceptable  B&W line hard copy 
for publication (use a 32lb smooth to glossy laser paper for the final output, 
it will reproduce fine)

Grayscale and color output devices ar more expensive and more problematic to 
use.  This is where many people send the electronic stuff straight to the 
printer for publication.  But if your don't have a setup calibrated to the final 
types of printing devices you on't know what you'll get.  Proofing methods can 
be very important for critical color and detail.
 Color reproduction on the computer is the one area that can cause real 
problems.  The first best thing you can do is make sure you have installed the 
"Gamma" utility that comes with photoshop.  This will do a reasonable job of 
getting your screen to show you real color.  But unless your are printing to 
only one color device (that you calibrate your monitor to match), and never send 
the work to any outside user who might print it, then color can be real tricky.  
The situation is slowly improving, but the simple, inexpensive solutions are all 
base on evolving standards.

Don't let it scare you, it is possible to get good work done on you setup, its 
not much different from mine.

____________
5. How much training did you need before could pay the investment with the 
results?

All my training has come from reading MAC computer magazines, talking to 
friends, and playing on the equipment.  Depending on where you are starting 
from, and what you want to do, I would say 1-2 years.  But you will get results 
right away, it will be a start on repaying the investment.

____________
6. I have some access to a Power Macintosh 7100/80,with 16 M Ram, a Nikkon 
Coolscan, Sharp JX330 scanner, Wacom tablet 6x9", Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator 
and Aldus Pagemaker. Do you think this equipment is enough to start? 

You have a very good setup there.  The scanners are very good ones, but when it 
comes to color images, there is still nothing to beat a professional film 
seperator for making problem images look good.

If you have well lighted pictures without deep shadows and harsh Hightlights you 
can get very decent results from the equipment you have.

I would urge you to get an additional 16M Ram chip when you can afford it, Life 
will be easier.
Also upgrade your Pagemaker to the newer versions as they come out.  That 
program should be improving significantly in its next few versions.
____________
8. And if the Instituto decided to switch to computer illustration, what kind of 
hard and software would you recommend? 

The software you have is some of the best.  IF you can get a faster and bigger 
version of the MAC great! you will also need some removable media like Syquest 
disks for stroage.  If you are on a budget, you might consider some of the new 
products from Iomega, the creators of the Bernoulli removable media format. If 
you are not on a budget, I would get a 200mb syquest, because they are a print 
industry standard that you could send anywhere in the US for publication,  But 
for real storage of large images, The Pinncle  4.6Gigabyte Optical drive looks 
hard to beat.


9.Many people here want to take their own photographs and convert them to 
illustrations, with the aid of computers. I am a bit skeptical about this idea, 
because I think only few photographs meet the standard of quality needed for 
this kind of work. Am I wrong? How much can you improve the quality of 
photographs with the computer?

Like I said, you can do some amazing things with the computer, but as they say, 
Garbage in- Garbage out.  Also ther is a limit on the amount of work you can 
shove through on computer and one artist.  If they want to do a book with 120 
color scans in it you might want to see if you could get their slides scaned 
onto a Photo-DC disk (maybe $250 in the U.S.)  That would be days of your 
computers time tied up in the scanning process that is now freed up for other 
tasks.

10.Is ANYONE capable of producing good illustrations (as well as color 
separations) this way? I mean people whithout  previous artistic or graphic 
skills or experience. 

There are some software packages that do a fair job of color correction and 
seperation out there ($750-$1500) that are supposed to be easy to use once they 
are set up properly (but I am sure ther are not fool proof).  

You can do a good job with photoshop, but you better know whats what color-wise.

11. Sometimes I feel,many people assume that a computer is all you need to make 
you and illustrator. Once Iwas told:"You and your colleagues belong to Medieval 
times. Thanks to computers, you are going soon to be extinct. EVERYONE will be 
able to be an artist!" Perhaps I am too touchy, but I felt hurt. For me the
computer is just another tool... 

Many scientists don't have a clue about art, but they know what they like.  They 
will never be artists and would be wasting the taxpayers money if they tried.  
 But in tuff bugetary time people will settle for realy poor quality (but they 
will also lose respect for their work that way as well).

12. May I bother you again?

Yes


Britt Griswold

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From: [log in to unmask] (Silvia Troyo)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Computer illustration 

From [log in to unmask] Fri Sep 29 12:27:57 1995
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 16:27:57 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Visual Display

Hello, Everyone!
This is so great!! I have some information to share about a wonderful one-day
seminar I took yesterday.....

Has anyone else heard of Edward Tufte? He teaches at Yale University and has
written several books, two of which were included in this seminar - "The
Visual Display of Quantitative Information" and "Envisioning Information".
Some of the topics covered included: fundamental strategies of information
design; color & information; presentations in all areas; complexity &
clarity; animation & scientific visualizations and design of computer
interfaces. He has some great ideas and examples, most of which are in his
current books and more in an upcoming book called "Visual Explanations" (due
out in 1996). He's a self-publisher and can be reached at Graphics Press in
Chesire, CT (202-272-9187). If he has a seminar in your area, I do recommend
it, although it was expensive. The three I know of are in Atlanta, GA;
Seattle, WA & in Washington DC (Mar '96). Contact me directly if you want
more detail on this. 

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