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SCIART-L  January 1996

SCIART-L January 1996

Subject:

Happy New YEAR!!!

From:

[log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)

Date:

Tue, 2 Jan 96 08:50:36 CST

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (3895 lines)

Happy NEW YEAR!

Good morning one and all!I'm back to work and back online. There was one
message that came through during Christmas and apparently a BUNCH of you
didn't get it. SO I'll post it again. For those of you who have already
received it, I apologize for the duplication!Welcome back to SciArt-L!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan  2 03:08:35 1996
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: Posting from Willow Zuchowski

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 13:56:21 -0600
Originator: [log in to unmask]
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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: [log in to unmask] (William Haber)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: images/photo cd

Thanks Britt for the photo cd info.

We've experimented a little with that (with butterfly photos), but
unfortunately it isn't very practical for us as we are a four-hr. drive
from the Costa Rican capitol, San Jose, AND they do not process film to
photo cd there.

Even film processing is a bit of a hassle here, and the quality leaves
something to be desired.  So the instant results of a digital camera are
very tempting.  If we get one, and experiment with the close-up lenses,
I'll let you all know how it goes.

Merry Christmas ... probably a white one for most of you (quite green here
in Costa Rica).

Willow Zuchowski
(e-mail: [log in to unmask])

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan  2 08:09:32 1996
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Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 13:09:32 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Happy New YEAR!!!

Job posting

Passed on by Britt Griswold
----------------
Subject: Photoshop instructor needed

Greetings;
I am the Coordinator of the Photography Program at College of DuPage in Suburban 
Chicago.
Our course offerings in Digital Image technology have grown to the point where 
we need some additional part-time instructors for classes.
What we are looking for is a  _Photographer_  who knows Photoshop and related 
technologies. It is important to us that the applicants be photographers first, 
Photoshoppers second.
Assignments would vary, but could include days, evenings and/or weekends.
We teach on the Macintosh exclusively, so familiarity with that platform is 
fairly important, though (as we've hopefully discovered by the endless flamewars 
here) not essential.
Interested parties should email or contact me directly, so as not to clog up the 
list.
Thanks.
Jeff Curto
Assistant Professor/Coordinator, Photography
College of DuPage
22nd St. and Lambert Road
Glen Ellyn, IL 60137
708/942-2527 
email: Jeff NC @ AOL.com

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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Happy New YEAR!!!

From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan  3 11:33:20 1996
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Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:33:20 -0500
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (William Haber)
Subject: stippling
Content-Length: 779

Do many of you do black and white work on the computer?

I'm experimenting with drawing on a tablet, using various line thicknesses,
stippling, etc. I believe there was a workshop at last year's GNSI
conference (which I did not attend) in which computer stippling techniques
were discussed.  I've experimented with using custom lines in a little
program called SmartSketch, and creating custom brushes and patterns in
Photoshop.  Any other ideas, comments??

>From the little I've done, it seems line simple pen and ink can be
simulated on the computer, but a "style," such as that developed by working
manually in pen and ink, is not possible. Or does it just take time?

I'd like to hear others experiences and ideas on this.

Cheers, Willow Zuchowski, [log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan  3 10:30:56 1996
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Date: 3 Jan 1996 16:30:56 CST
From: Simpson <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: scanning and resolution

Hello Sci-Art people:

I have a pretty basic question but I seem unable to find the answer in the 
Photoshop manual so I ask your indulgence with it:

Our photography department is printing some b/w portraits I am going to scan and
drop into a Quark document.  The photographs will be scanned in-house at 600dpi;
the final output will be an Iris proof which will be pasted on the wall.  Should
I ask the photography department to make their prints at about the size of the 
final Iris, or considerably larger??

...the place that makes the Iris said scan at 100% but since I didn't get to 
talk to a tech person I'm still not sure.

Thank you
-Clara 
__________________________________________________________________
CLARA R.SIMPSON                                       FIELD MUSEUM
Illustrator                            Chicago, Illinois USA 60605
Department of Zoology                   Phone: (312) 922-9410 x620
available Wednesdays and Thursdays             Fax: (312) 663-5397
                         (when VAX is up) email: [log in to unmask]
3 Jan. 96
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan  4 05:19:08 1996
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Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 10:19:08 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: scanning and resolution

The Iris printer is an inkjet printer, so the final product looks very much like 
high quality offset printing.  The line screen can be varied.  I have had 
material prepared as 180-200 lpi prints.  It is very difficult to see the dot 
pattern without a loupe- looks very good.  As with all postscript devices, 1.5-
2.0x the lpi is what you should scan at for same size reproduction. beyond that 
you are wasting your time and resources.

So...

If you have an 8x10 original that you want to print as an 11x14 picture, do the 
following:

Print(lpi)x(2.0) X FinalSize/OriginalSize = Scan (dpi) 

200x2.0 X 14/10= 560dpi scan

So a 600dpi scan of an 8x10 print will be more than adequate. I would be 
comfortable printing an 11x16 print from that as well.
Make sure you specify the acceptable range of LPI to your service bureau when 
you send the job. And have the IRIS laminated with a UV protective coating to 
increase its longevity (the inks are water soluble). I like a semi-gloss 
laminate myself.

[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________________________
Hello Sci-Art people:

I have a pretty basic question but I seem unable to find the answer in the 
Photoshop manual so I ask your indulgence with it:

Our photography department is printing some b/w portraits I am going to scan and
drop into a Quark document.  The photographs will be scanned in-house at 600dpi;
the final output will be an Iris proof which will be pasted on the wall.  Should
I ask the photography department to make their prints at about the size of the 
final Iris, or considerably larger??

...the place that makes the Iris said scan at 100% but since I didn't get to 
talk to a tech person I'm still not sure.

Thank you
-Clara 
__________________________________________________________________
CLARA R.SIMPSON                                       FIELD MUSEUM


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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: Simpson <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: scanning and resolution

From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan  4 07:28:27 1996
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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:28:27 -0500
To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Frank Ippolito)
Subject: Re: scanning and resolution

> Should
>I ask the photography department to make their prints at about the size of the
>final Iris, or considerably larger??
>
>...the place that makes the Iris said scan at 100% but since I didn't get to
>talk to a tech person I'm still not sure.

Hi Clara,

Nothing basic about this. We are all wrestling with issues about
input/output. I believe that there is no reason to print larger.At same
size, the silver dot pattern of the print is significantly smaller than the
size of a 600 DPI pixel. This is all that is needed to assure that all of
the detail is captured faithfully. Methinks.

Cheers,

Frank

Frank Ippolito    [log in to unmask]
American Museum of Natural History


From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan  4 08:48:39 1996
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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:48:39 -0500
To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Frank Ippolito)
Subject: Re: scanning and resolution

>It is very difficult to see the dot
>pattern without a loupe- looks very good.

Actually this will vary slightly depending on the stock of paper that you
print on. Papers that are a little more absorbent will take in each dot and
let them bleed slightly into their neighbor. This will make it very hard to
discern the dot pattern. Plate finish paper will not allow this to happen
and will reveal the dots more readily.

Frank

Frank Ippolito    [log in to unmask]
American Museum of Natural History


From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan  4 05:50:34 1996
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: FYI:Artists workshop!!

Dear Pauline,

I wondered if you could please post an aritist workshop
announcement for us?  Thank you in advance for your
assistance.  Here is the information:

Dates:  April 14-19, 1996

"Big Island Artist Workshop: In Celebration of the Flower"

Focusing on the tropical flowers and cultures of Hawaii.
Students receive comprehensive instruction in botanical art
and colored pencil technique, lectures on traditional use of
indigenous plants, and excursions to botanical and sacred
cultural sites.

Instructor: Katharine Flynn, director of "Meditations on Nature"
of Sedona, Arizona.  Winner of the 1996 International
Colored Pencil Exhibition.  Exhibiting nationally with the
Hunt Institute of Botanical Documentation.

Workshop Location:  Adjacent to the Volcano Art Center in
Hawaii Volcanoes National Park.  On the edge of the world's
largest active volcano, the location offers a diversity of native
flora and landscape as well as exposure to Hawaiin arts
and culture.

Medium: Colored Pencil

Levels:  Advanced beginners, intermediate & advanced.

Cost:  $ 425 plus airfare and lodging.  10% discount for Islanders.

For registration,  accommodations and transportation information
call Steppingstone Environmental Education Tours at 1-800-874-8784.

For workshop content information, call Katharine Flynn 1-520-634-2501.


From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan  4 07:46:52 1996
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Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 12:46:52 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: PHOTO-CD excerpts (long)

Some interesting chatter from the Photo-CD Listserve, that I thought those 
experimenting with Photo-CD might find useful.
Britt_Griswold
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PHOTO-CD digest 806

I recently had a Photo CD done as an experiment.  The images all had 
assorted defects, including scratches, off color balance, miss framing 
,etc.  They came from sources including serveal films stocks and both 
positive and negative films.

All were 35mm.

I asked the provider to use the universal channel for all teh slides, and 
not to correct for color exposure or other aspects... in other words I 
wanted to see what I could do with my system to correct the problems.

With the negs, I asked that they use the proper channel for the film 
type, so that I could work with a coorrectly balanced images (in terms of 
film stock).

I am now bringing these images into Photoshop 3.04 on a Windows based 
platform to work on them.

I am using the module Adobe provides from within Photoshop to get the 
images into the program.

The problem I am running into is that all the images, although they look 
good on the "contact sheet" come into the program very dark and somewhat 
green.  This is even with images that had proper balance and exposure to 
begin with.

WHat I am wondering is, is there a specific brightness, contrast and 
color correction I need to make to get these images to look right?  I 
have used the Adobe calibration program to adjust my monitor for proper 
gamma, grey scale, black and white point.  Even taking the monitor to 
full brightness leaves teh images too dark (although the contrast is too 
low).

Is there a secret to getting Photo CD images into Adobe Photoshop?  I 
think I have heard this complaint before (too dark and green).

Or do I need my service provider to redo the whole disk to correct for 
incorrect gamma on the scans?

Thanks

Art Entlich
Artistic Communications
dan-art photographic
------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re: PHOTO-CD digest 806

This is a response to what I see as a series of questions about Photo CDs and
with problems bringing them into Photoshop. Disregarding some of the minor
problems mentioned, there is one common thread here..... that far too many
people are getting images from a PCD into Photoshop that are too dark.

This is not a trivial issue.

Almost to a person the questioners here are wondering what they are doing
wrong.

I went through this process all summer and fall this year as I was getting my
new JADE book into print. And what I found from Kodak, from Adobe, and from a
good many users here might be useful to some of the new PCD users. 

The chances are superb that you are doing nothing wrong at all. The chances
are almost 100% that the problem is with the firm you used to make your Photo
 CDs.  I find that a system that we were led to believe was stable and even
automatic has many controls and a lot of skill associated with it. When I got
back 2 unusable discs of 100 slides (same slides put through the system
twice) and spent more than 100 hours and several thousand dollars correcting
color and density, I too questioned what else I might do to get this right. 

And the answer was and is.... go to a provider ot quality Photo CDs and do
not use the local camera store or graphics art house with a Kodak unit in
back. When done right, Photo CDs produce photographic scans that are bright,
sharp, clean, in focus, and usable with (I find) only the addition of some
sharpening and additional contrast.

Stop questioning the Acquire modules and whether OPEN is the right way to
open pictures. Have a comparison PCD made by a quality house that may charge
more but does it right.

Fred Ward        [log in to unmask]

------------------------------

Subject: Finding Photo CD Service Providers

For people trying to find Photo CD services, it might be
helpful to know that a searchable database of providers
is available on the Kodak web site (www.kodak.com).  You
can just type in your city or state and get a list of those 
near you.  Follow the "Digital Imaging" link.

Chris Dobbs
Eastman Kodak Company

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Need info on Kodak-CD processing

Hi Jean-Yves

In a message dated 96-01-02 19:21:03 EST, you write:

>My first and only try so far on Phto-cd was rather disapointing. Compared to
>the 
>slides I gave, all the scans were very very dark. Even if I retouch the scan
>with
>editing software, I still can't match the original, because of the dark area
>has lost information. And I will be obliged to keep the edited scans which
is
>again the philosphy of Photo-cd (I don't mind retouching and keeping a
couple
>of scan but not the full photo-cd).

This is not a normal outcome, and I suspect that there was a problem with
either the setup under which the slides were scanned, or with the method of
aquisition of the images on the cd.

We find having open communication between the customer and the technician
very helpful. Sometimes just knowing what kind of film was used
helps...including a Q-60 target with your scanning order can make things
easier for you. There are a number of issues surrounding color management,
but once addressed, you should be able to open the images fairly easily.

Regards,
Bob

------------------------------
Subject: Re: PHOTO-CD digest 806

Hi Art.

In a message dated 96-01-03 06:59:30 EST, you write:

>The problem I am running into is that all the images, although they look 
>good on the "contact sheet" come into the program very dark and somewhat 
>green.  This is even with images that had proper balance and exposure to 
>begin with.
>
>WHat I am wondering is, is there a specific brightness, contrast and 
>color correction I need to make to get these images to look right?

I do this all the time using PICC (Perp Impress) software to aquire the images 
under the unknown negative transform...the results are excellent....needing only 
an occasional tweak in the levels control.
Regards
Bob
------------------------------

End of PHOTO-CD Digest 807
**************************

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From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan  4 09:12:10 1996
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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:12:10 -0500
To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Frank Ippolito)
Subject: Re: stippling


>I'd like to hear others experiences and ideas on this.

 Hi Willow,

I have been experimenting quite a bit lately with using Photoshop to assist
in the process of creating stipples. I was at the workshop you describe,
but unfortunately Pedro Salgado (the original instructor) had to cancell.
Karen Teramura did an excellent job filling in, and we spent the time
exploring and experimenting. I came away with a foundation and a direction
that looks very promising to me. It involves both traditional approaches
and computer illustration. I will be heading a weeklong workshop on this up
in RDSI for the guild this Summer. The details should be printed in one of
the upcoming newletters.

As far as developing a style, you guessed it. It will take time. These
tools are way new, and each of us will bring to them a varied collection of
experiences. Keep pushing.

Frank

Frank Ippolito    [log in to unmask]
American Museum of Natural History


From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan  4 08:32:33 1996
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Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 13:32:33 -0500
From: [log in to unmask] (John Nyquist)
Subject: Re: FYI:Artists workshop!!
To: [log in to unmask]
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>Dear Pauline,
>
>I wondered if you could please post an aritist workshop
>announcement for us?  Thank you in advance for your
>assistance.  Here is the information:
>
>Dates:  April 14-19, 1996
>
>"Big Island Artist Workshop: In Celebration of the Flower"
>
>Focusing on the tropical flowers and cultures of Hawaii.
>Students receive comprehensive instruction in botanical art
>and colored pencil technique, lectures on traditional use of
>indigenous plants, and excursions to botanical and sacred
>cultural sites.
>
>Instructor: Katharine Flynn, director of "Meditations on Nature"
>of Sedona, Arizona.  Winner of the 1996 International
>Colored Pencil Exhibition.  Exhibiting nationally with the
>Hunt Institute of Botanical Documentation.
>
>Workshop Location:  Adjacent to the Volcano Art Center in
>Hawaii Volcanoes National Park.  On the edge of the world's
>largest active volcano, the location offers a diversity of native
>flora and landscape as well as exposure to Hawaiin arts
>and culture.
>
>Medium: Colored Pencil
>
>Levels:  Advanced beginners, intermediate & advanced.
>
>Cost:  $ 425 plus airfare and lodging.  10% discount for Islanders.
>
>For registration,  accommodations and transportation information
>call Steppingstone Environmental Education Tours at 1-800-874-8784.
>
>For workshop content information, call Katharine Flynn 1-520-634-2501.


This class would most likely be eligible for AMI continuing ed. credit.  If
anyone is interested, continuing ed. forms can be obtained from the
Association of Medical Illustrators Headquarters in Atlanta. Phone number
is 404 - 350 - 7900.

John Nyquist


From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan  4 10:11:00 1996
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Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 15:11:00 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Photo_CD ListServe Correction (short)

Oops!
I May have directed people toward the wrong bit of information in the Photo-CD 
listserve download I sent today.  An Item mentioned at the end of the message as 
"PICC" aquire module is not Perp Impress (though that is supposed to be good) 
but is infact the following, (also retrived from the Photo-CD listserve)

Britt Griswold
________________

>I may have lost information, what is a Q-60 target? something like a 
calibration?<

Yes...it is an IT-8 standard target image that is used as a benchmark. We use
it with Kodak's PICC (Precision Input Color Charachterization) software which
allows us to open photo cd (and other types of) images using a well defined
look up table. This takes the guesswork out of color management for me, and I
have been simply delighted with its performance. The package is cheap
($300US) and has saved me countless hours of color futzing.

________________

From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan  4 11:43:17 1996
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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 16:43:17 -0500
To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Frank Ippolito)
Subject: Re: PHOTO-CD excerpts (long)

>Some interesting chatter from the Photo-CD Listserve, that I thought those
>experimenting with Photo-CD might find useful.

Hey Britt Thanks for the useful info. We have had quite a range of results
here. Mick Ellison should be signing on to the listserv soon. He has had a
bit of experience with them. Some positive, some negative.

Frank

Frank Ippolito    [log in to unmask]
American Museum of Natural History


From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan  5 08:26:46 1996
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: input to output!

Ok, I have a bit of a problem and I need some advice on the best approach!!

What I'm doing is scanning in moth specimen photographs, then I'm opening
them in Photoshop and fixing them up, digital editing and all. THEN...we
are putting them together on a plate illustration with a white background
to be  printed in color for a book publication. I'm using CMYT mode and the
file is HUGE!! Color correction is very important in moth identification.

The problem is the printer on campus farms this digital color printing out,
so I haven't been about to calibrate my monitor to the output device. AND I
don't know what the output device is (because they farm it out). I'd say my
attemps at finding out were NOT good. The printer(on Campus) wants to just
run a printing proof at our cost and have me correct color problems. Is
this common, any suggestions??this will cost $100 a proof.

AND since the images are HUGE-4000+ K, I can't get them compressed enough
to have disk format!

HELP!

THANKS ALL!!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan  5 02:17:46 1996
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From: [log in to unmask] (William Haber)
Subject: stippling
Content-Length: 0

>I will be heading a weeklong workshop on this up
>in RDSI for the guild this Summer. The details should be printed in one of
>the upcoming newletters.

Sounds interesting, Frank. Excuse my ignorance, but what is RDSI (or should
it be RISD?)?  As I reside in Costa Rica, and the newsletter often arrives
here after the upcoming events have happened, I'd appreciate some news on
the workshop via e-mail. Thanks, Willow


From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan  5 10:49:34 1996
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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:49:34 -0500
To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Frank Ippolito)
Subject: Re: stippling

Hi Willow,

>Excuse my ignorance, but what is RDSI (or should
>it be RISD?)?

Indeed it should. As in . . Rhode Island School of Design. Thanks for
pointing that out. My typing skills ARE improving. Slowly <G>.

>As I reside in Costa Rica, and the newsletter often arrives
>here after the upcoming events have happened, I'd appreciate some news on
>the workshop via e-mail.

Sure thing. I don't have all specifics, but I will post them here at the
time the newsletter comes out.

Frank

Frank Ippolito    [log in to unmask]
American Museum of Natural History


From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan 10 15:25:25 1996
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From: "Kristine A. Kirkeby" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: stippling
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 21:25:25 -0600

In message <[log in to unmask]>  writes:
> >I will be heading a weeklong workshop on this up
> >in RDSI for the guild this Summer. The details should be printed in one of
> >the upcoming newletters.
> 
> Sounds interesting, Frank. Excuse my ignorance, but what is RDSI (or should
> it be RISD?)?  As I reside in Costa Rica, and the newsletter often arrives
> here after the upcoming events have happened, I'd appreciate some news on
> the workshop via e-mail. Thanks, Willow
> 
> Hi folks,

The Guild of Natural Illustrators Summer Workshops are being organized by 
Gretchen Halpert.  I think we are going to have a strong computer emphasis again
this summer.  It will be in Rhode Island School of Design (RISD) again, in June.
You may contact Gretchen at 167 Gallatin Street,  Providence RI 02907 for more 
details.   Wish we could speed international mail for you!! 
Kris Kirkeby, Pres. GNSI



From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 11 07:38:31 1996
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 12:38:31 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: input to output!

Dear Pauline,

You do have a problem.

The only thing I can suggest is to scan your pictures, and a Kodak color scale 
(if you have a photo of the scale on the same film stock, developed at the same 
time as your photos, this is even better. 

Your will need to set your scanner settings manually and save the settings so 
that you can repeat the setting for every scan (automatic will destroy your 
control of the image) I am assuming you have good photos.

In Photoshop, record all changes you make to your image, so you can repeat it on 
all images, or modify it later to get slight changes.

I am assuming you are acquiring images as RGB and then converting them to CMYK.  
You will need to set your printing preferences to run as an SWOP sheet-fed press 
with glossy paper.
    In printing Inks Setup- SWOP with 20% gain is good (default I think)
    In Separation Setup- GCR/ Light black generation/95% Black Ink limit/290% 
total Ink Limit/ UCA Amount 0%.

These are the best setting I can offer. Only the printing company will be able 
to give you better ones. This might be a reason to stay in RGB and wait to have 
a printer selected before you convert to CMYK. If Color is supercritical, there 
may be no way you will save money by doing it yourself with desktop scanners and 
Photoshop. The number of error points are high with out a calibrated system/and 
knowledge of the final printing conditions.

But assuming you want to give it a go and see what happens.

Open your picture of the Kodak color bar.
In CMYK mode
In the image/adjust/curves dialogue box,
double click on the white eyedropper, enter a set of values in the CMYK color % 
boxes and say OK.

Do the same for the gray and black eyedroppers.
I will send the values later today, I can't find them at the moment.

Apply the white eye dropper to the white target, The grey eye dropper to a 50% 
grey target and the Black eye dropper to the black target. Now save the curve 
for later application to your pictures.

As to the size of your final files:

Assuming a printing line screen of 150lpi, you will need 225-300dpi at final 
print size in your file.  Adjust picture size and dpiin your Image/Image Size 
dialge box with the "file size" option box un-"x"ed.If the file size decreases, 
that's fine. If the file size increases, cancel and redo the modification with 
"file size" option box re-"x"ed.

Save the file as a LZW Tiff under another name to protect your RBG original.

Apply the saved curve setting to a cross section selection of your Moth scans.
Save each one. Then composite them into the final page layout program you intend 
to use. Include the Kodak color bar.

Now you can try to put the file on disk. My guess is you will need a Syquest or 
Zip drive. If you need to put the file on floppies you can use a program like 
StuffIt and segment the file onto a series of floppies (oyie!).

Send it out for a MatchPrint color proof. ($100)

When it comes back, use the MatchPrint to calibrate your monitor with 
Photoshop's GAMMA utility.

Then decide if you like the Match print pictures.  If you need to make 
adjustments, you will need to go back to your seperation setup and your Curves 
and reconfigure. That you will have to judge for yourself, or send me the whole 
thing for a second opinion.

[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: input to output!
From:    <[log in to unmask]> at Internet
Date:    1/5/96  3:27 PM

Ok, I have a bit of a problem and I need some advice on the best approach!!

What I'm doing is scanning in moth specimen photographs, then I'm opening
them in Photoshop and fixing them up, digital editing and all. THEN...we
are putting them together on a plate illustration with a white background
to be  printed in color for a book publication. I'm using CMYT mode and the
file is HUGE!! Color correction is very important in moth identification.

The problem is the printer on campus farms this digital color printing out,
so I haven't been about to calibrate my monitor to the output device. AND I
don't know what the output device is (because they farm it out). I'd say my
attemps at finding out were NOT good. The printer(on Campus) wants to just
run a printing proof at our cost and have me correct color problems. Is
this common, any suggestions??this will cost $100 a proof.

AND since the images are HUGE-4000+ K, I can't get them compressed enough
to have disk format!

HELP!

THANKS ALL!!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949



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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: input to output!

From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 11 06:58:08 1996
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: THANKS!

Elaine and Britt,
Thanks so much for the advice. Unfortunately, with the computer
manipulation of the photographs, color correction can't be made on my end
as easy as Ron does it. Bummer too, beause then it would be out of my
hands. Right now we are working with some really good photographs that are
backlighted and all, but the problem again is in the monitor to output
device. Apparently a big problem with everyone, so I don't feel like SUCH
an idiot!BUT....I DO appreciate all the advice I can get. I'm not proud.;)
And the advice about calibration really helped sooooo much. I hope it
helped others too. OR at least made people aware there might be a problem.
Before this discussion, I really didn't think much about it!

Apparently there is a group out of Boulder CO, that gives some short
courses on these types of problems. We are trying to get them to come to
UNL to give a day shortcourse. I'm very excited about that!The cosrt is
about 100.00 per day. Maybe, if there is enough interest...we could
advertise and set one up for GNSI member some time in the future. Possibly
a summer short course...or maybe late winter this year!Please let me know
who might be interested!!!THANKS AGAIN!!!!

Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 11 07:43:53 1996
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Date:         Thu, 11 Jan 96 12:43:53 EST
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: input to output!
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:24:47 -0600 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Regarding color correction for moth photos:  my husband, lepidopterist
Ron Hodges, handles color correction as follows - very good standard
photographs are taken with elaborate lighting setups, sometimes using
backlighting thru translucent film to eliminate cast shadows. The
transparencies go to the printer and are prepared in four-color process
to be printed onto archival coated paper.  THEN Ron takes representative
moths to the printer and stands next to the paper coming off the color
press, holds the moth next to its picture, and proofs that way. Colored
inks are adjusted on the press until Ron approves the color printing.
Not practical for everyone but effective for accuracy.
  I know this does not answer the computer question, but thought you'd
all get a kick out of this very simple way to check color accuracy.


Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 11 08:21:38 1996
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 13:21:38 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: input to output!

Dear Pauline,

Ignore the previous version of this message.

You do have a problem.

The only thing I can suggest is to scan your pictures, and a Kodak color scale 
(if you have a photo of the scale on the same film stock, developed at the same 
time as your photos, this is even better. 

Your will need to set your scanner settings manually and save the settings so 
that you can repeat the setting for every scan (automatic will destroy your 
control of the image). What kind of scanner do you have?  If you have some 
system for creating a scanner calibration table, do it.

I am assuming you have a good set of high quality photos, all printed to look 
their best.

In Photoshop, record all changes you make to your image, so you can repeat it on 
all images, or modify it later to get slight changes.

I am assuming you are acquiring images as RGB and then converting them to CMYK.  

You will need to set your printing preferences to run as an SWOP sheet-fed press 
with glossy paper.
    In printing Inks Setup- SWOP with 20% gain is good (default I think)
    In Separation Setup- GCR/ Light black generation/95% Black Ink limit/300% 
total Ink Limit/ UCA Amount 0%.

These are the best setting I can offer. Only the printing company will be able 
to give you better ones. This might be a reason to stay in RGB and wait to have 
a printer selected before you convert to CMYK. If Color is supercritical, there 
may be no way you will save money by doing it yourself with desktop scanners and 
Photoshop. The number of error points are high with out a calibrated system/and 
knowledge of the final printing conditions.

But assuming you want to give it a go and see what happens.

Open your picture of the Kodak color bar.
In CMYK mode
In the image/adjust/curves dialogue box,
double click on the white eyedropper, enter a set of values 
C-4% M-2% Y-2% K-0%  in the % boxes and say OK.

Do the same for the gray and black eyedroppers.
Gray C-53% M-40% Y-40% K-0%
Black C-0% M-0% Y-0% K-80%

Apply the white eye dropper to the white target in the Kodak scale, 
The gray eye dropper to a 50% gray target and 
the Black eye dropper to the black target. 
Now save the curve for later application to your pictures.

As to the size of your final files:

Assuming a printing line screen of 150lpi, you will need 225-300dpi at final 
print size in your file.  Adjust picture size and dpi in your Image/Image Size 
dialge box with the "file size" option box un-"x"ed.If the file size decreases, 
that's fine. If the file size increases, cancel and redo the modification with 
"file size" option box re-"x"ed.

Save the file as a LZW Tiff under another name to protect your RBG original.

Apply the saved curve setting to a cross section selection of your Moth scans.
Save each one. Then composite them into the final page layout program you intend 
to use. Include the Kodak color bar.

Now you can try to put the file on disk. My guess is you will need a Syquest or 
Zip drive. If you need to put the file on floppies you can use a program like 
StuffIt and segment the file onto a series of floppies (oyie!).

Send it out for a MatchPrint color proof. ($100)

When it comes back, use the MatchPrint to calibrate your monitor with 
Photoshop's GAMMA utility.

Then decide if you like the MatchPrint pictures.  If you need to make 
adjustments, you will need to go back to your seperation setup and your Curves 
and reconfigure. That you will have to judge for yourself, or send me the whole 
thing for a second opinion.

[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: input to output!
From:    <[log in to unmask]> at Internet
Date:    1/5/96  3:27 PM

Ok, I have a bit of a problem and I need some advice on the best approach!!

What I'm doing is scanning in moth specimen photographs, then I'm opening
them in Photoshop and fixing them up, digital editing and all. THEN...we
are putting them together on a plate illustration with a white background
to be  printed in color for a book publication. I'm using CMYT mode and the
file is HUGE!! Color correction is very important in moth identification.

The problem is the printer on campus farms this digital color printing out,
so I haven't been about to calibrate my monitor to the output device. AND I
don't know what the output device is (because they farm it out). I'd say my
attemps at finding out were NOT good. The printer(on Campus) wants to just
run a printing proof at our cost and have me correct color problems. Is
this common, any suggestions??this will cost $100 a proof.

AND since the images are HUGE-4000+ K, I can't get them compressed enough
to have disk format!

HELP!

THANKS ALL!!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949



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Subject: input to output!

From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 11 09:38:44 1996
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Subject: Re: THANKS!

It looks like we are going to have a Half-day workshop on computer color at the 
summer meeting Fri. 7/19/96. that will cover this area. I don't Know pricing 
yet.

Britt
_______________________________________________________________________________

Apparently there is a group out of Boulder CO, that gives some short
courses on these types of problems. We are trying to get them to come to
UNL to give a day shortcourse. I'm very excited about that!The cosrt is
about 100.00 per day. Maybe, if there is enough interest...we could
advertise and set one up for GNSI member some time in the future. Possibly
a summer short course...or maybe late winter this year!Please let me know
who might be interested!!!THANKS AGAIN!!!!

Polly


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Subject: THANKS!

From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 16 04:14:38 1996
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Subject: test?

test test- Are we being shy?

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


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Just waiting for questions to answer.
Britt
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: test?
From:    <[log in to unmask]> at Internet
Date:    1/16/96  11:08 AM

test test- Are we being shy?

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949



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From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 16 06:36:06 1996
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Subject: Re: test?

>test test- Are we being shy?


Me shy? You jest!  A little spaced out mabey from staying up all night with
a rapidograph in hand. But shy? No way, baby. <G>

Frank Ippolito    [log in to unmask]
American Museum of Natural History


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Subject: PHOTO-CD digest 815

More on Photo CD from the Photo-CD list
There are shortcomings that need to be watched closely
Britt_Griswold
_____________________
Subject: Re: PHOTO-CD digest 814
I wanted to comment on the discussion about the term "darK' when opening 
PCD images in Photoshop Windows version.

When I use the therm "dark" I am refering to an image which, in 
photographic terms is between 3-4 f stops under the way the image looks 
on both the original slide and the thumbnail images provided by the CD 
producer.

It is true that the autolevels ajustment "corrects" most of this, it 
strikes me that the image should not enter the program in such an 
"underexposed" manner.

I have my monitor calibrated for gamma, white and black point and with 
amibient light level taken into account.

The PCD images are very, very dark.  Images coming from the Photoshop 
tutorial (JPEGS) seem to look about right, as do images from any other 
source.  SO, I would suggest that the image scans or the acquire module 
are at fault here.

I had the images scanned using a universal channel.  The images were on 
Kodachrome, Ektachrome standard and duping films, and Fujuchrome, and 
negative stock of several manuafacturers.

Art
Artistic Communications
dan-art photographic
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Re: PHOTO-CD digest 814
This is directed to Art, at Dan-Art Photographic............
 
And is another comment on the never-ending but very important "dark images"
discussion that some of us consider important.
 
Art, don't let Kodak or anyone else try to blame you, or tell you your system
is out of adjustment, or divert you into a discussion about "just how far off
is off.... is it a half stop off or 4 stops."
 
If you have a computer system that shows you images from any other source
that are bright and beautiful.... if you surf the WEb and look at images that
are wonderful..... if you use a clip disk and see good-looking images.....
and then if you load a Photo CD and the stuff looks like mud, then you can be
damned sure what the problem is.
 
I am a little sick of excuses on here about pilot error.  We are not all a
bunch of stupid amateurs.  A number of people on here know the difference
between an acceptable and a dark image.

And it is perfectly apparent to anyone with an ounce of sense and even one
good eye that there is something seriously wrong with the way many firms are
making Photo CD scans for the public (or for professionals).  I nailed the
owner of the firm that cost me 2 months work and several thousand dollars and
showed him what his scans looked like and what good ones look like, and he
admitted that he both screwed up on mine and had been screwing up for months
on others..... and has corrected his procedure.  Now people get good scans
from him.  (Makes you wonder about the Kodak training he received when he
bought the unit.)

You would be amazed at the messages I have received from a number of Photo CD
suppliers after my first couple of messages on here. They are in the business
of making PCDs.... and to a person they said........ keep it up.... get the
word out.... we cannot...don't use our name....the problems are almost always
bad scanning procedures......the system works, operators often do not, etc. 
 
So, change suppliers, get samples, send along a PCD you like for the supplier
to use as a model.  If all this doesn't get better, then the likely result
will be that Kodak will find PCD is more trouble than it's worth, kill the
whole system, and we will have nothing like it.

I would like to suggest that taking a little responsibility and straightening
out the problems, telling suppliers both how to get good scans and either
helping or pulling the system from those who don't would go a long way toward
resolving this. 

The basic problem is that Kodak see PCD (and almost all its other businesses)
as amateur-directed. Professionals are always left out of the process. If PCD
cannot make it as an amateur product (which it has not done so far), then
Kodak will probably kill it.
Too bad.  It deserves much better.  But Kodak's static bureaucracy makes the
DOD look nimble. 

Fred Ward             [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Subject: Dark Images etc.
If I can add my few-pence worth to this particular subject, I would 
most certainly lay a large part of the blame at Kodak's door - not 
because there is anything wrong with Photo-CD as an entity - In fact I 
like the results when good - but because they stay aloof from the 
problem ----

My own difficulties in getting quality scans have been mentioned 
before and my own solution to obtaining a benchmark, was to approach 
Kodak directly and ask them to scan the negatives and produce the 
Pro-Photo-CD's for me. The answer was NO - I must go to a service 
provider and get them done there. All well and good; Kodak are firm to 
their word in directing clients to their own service providers. But is 
this so good, obviously not, because one bad firm destroys the 
credibility of Photo-CD in an instant, and word of mouth is a wicked 
weapon in the hands of the dissatisfied. 

If Kodak actually provided even a one-off service to dissatisfied 
customers, then that would act to force shoddy service providers to 
pull their socks up and get it right. It would also provide the necessary 
benchmark by which everything else would have to be measured.

Trouble is always found in monopolised markets and services, because 
some of those who are part of them often take a rather bloody-minded 
attitude to customers - take it or leave it pal! But pay for it first.

I have 650 5"x4" negatives to be scanned in, restored and written back 
to negative using Kodak's LVT system. There is no question of these 
images being less than perfect, they have to be right, but every place I 
go to produces different results from the same images and I am told 
that the image is written to negative AS IS. So what is right and what is 
wrong - God knows, maybe even Kodak know, but I don't and I doubt if 
many of the service centre personnel know either.

Boston Photo Imaging did a good job for me, with nice flat images, 
not too dark and not too light - incidentally (here come the cries of 
disbelief) I have no trouble with opening images on my PC using 
Picture Publisher - as far as too light or too dark is concerned - I 
actually use Pagemaker as the output tool because of its WSYIWYG 
interface and usually obtain 95% perfection, allowing 5% for the 
difference between reflective prints and the screen.

I see the core of the problem as TIME; service providers, like 
everyone else, want to get the job done as quickly as possible and get 
on with more. They view the images in preview as tiny little thumbnails 
and make a flash judgement as to how good it is, rather than viewing 
each pre-scan enlarged and making true adjustments i.e. film-types, 
tonality etc.
I now insist on being present when the scans are done and if that is not 
possible, I don't deal with the provider. After all, it is my money they 
are after and my material they are using, so I should have a say in how 
the work is produced FOR ME.
The other problem is of course that once a bad service centre has got 
your money it is very hard to get it back or make them do the work 
again - but genuine firms will of course put it right.
Perhaps Kodak, who are so adamant in their protection of the integrity 
of Photo-CD, would be kind enough to police and underwrite the 
output of Photo-CD service centres; that way the customer would 
always be happy and Kodak would soon remove firms that cost them 
money from their lists. In the end a better deal for all - Kodak, quality 
service providers and most of all the customers, without whom Kodak 
and the rest would perish.

At some point in time, something has to be done by Kodak; it is not 
good enough to stand in the shadows and pretend nothing is wrong out 
there, because that is not the fact. Photo-CD is a good tool when used 
correctly and it all starts with Kodak's attitude to the end-users - That 
is where Kodak's loyalty should be embedded and not otherwise.

Graham

[log in to unmask]

------------------------------

End of PHOTO-CD Digest 815
**************************

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From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 16 06:50:03 1996
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        [log in to unmask]
Subject: PHOTO-CD digest 816

Kodack Response to Dark Image Questions-
Britt
-----------------
FYI....The discussion has been forwarded to people in the US and Europe who
are responsible for the Photo CD products.

The latest version (available for quite awhile) of the PIW software and
hardware allows the lab to view enlarged preview images (i.e. not tiny
thumbnails) with an electronic densitometer where they can verify the code
values in YCC or RGB.  There is also a preview mode where they look at the
entire image at full resolution after the scan but prior to writing the
disk.  This tool also enables semi manual dust and scratch removal.  They
also have controls on this system to change neutral contrast, individual
color contrast and saturation.  The PIW monitor is calibrated to D5000
which is the prepress standard for viewing images.  Further, the images can
be encrypted and watermarked. Of course, the labs which use these tools
will need to charge more money.

Unfortunately, many labs have not opted to go for this upgrade.  There is
also considerable user price pressure where people demand lower prices and
labs can't afford to put in the custom work at these prices.  The better
labs charge higher prices, do better quality, etc.

The idea of a Q-lab type system is good and I will pass that along to those
that I interact with.

Have a nice day !
Bill O'Such
Eastman Kodak Company
Internet:  [log in to unmask];  Compuserve:  72662,27

------------------------------

End of PHOTO-CD Digest 816

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From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 16 06:20:10 1996
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To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Doug Yanega)
Subject: Re: input to output!/Photo CD stuff

>What I'm doing is scanning in moth specimen photographs, then I'm opening
>them in Photoshop and fixing them up, digital editing and all. THEN...we
>are putting them together on a plate illustration with a white background
>to be  printed in color for a book publication. I'm using CMYT mode and the
>file is HUGE!! Color correction is very important in moth identification.
>
>The problem is the printer on campus farms this digital color printing out,
>so I haven't been about to calibrate my monitor to the output device. AND I
>don't know what the output device is (because they farm it out). I'd say my
>attemps at finding out were NOT good. The printer(on Campus) wants to just
>run a printing proof at our cost and have me correct color problems. Is
>this common, any suggestions??this will cost $100 a proof.
>
>AND since the images are HUGE-4000+ K, I can't get them compressed enough
>to have disk format!
>
>HELP!

Hi, Polly. This is almost identical to what I'm going through with my 400
scanned beetle photographs. I had a firm in Oregon do the original scans
with Kodak PhotoCD (which, believe it or not, came out a few "f stops" too
*light*, but that's relatively easily adjusted by increasing the contrast),
and then the general procedure is similar to yours - edit the images in
CMYK mode, then shrink them and put them together in a PageMaker file to be
printed in color for a field guide. We've been unable to get the printers
to simply run a test page - it looks like paying for a printing proof is
the only real option, and we'll just have to hope that the colors come out
reasonably close to how they look on my screen. Note that we figured that
the final resolution of the printing process was such that we could work on
medium-res images rather than high-res, so the file sizes are not
unmanageable (each individual file is under 300K), and each PageMaker file
is between 1 and 2 meg uncompressed. Unless your moth pictures are going to
be reproduced as *posters*, working with the high-res files is probably
overkill. Just a thought,
Cheers,

Doug Yanega       Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr.
Champaign, IL 61820 USA      phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949
 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology
  "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
        is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82


From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 16 07:09:34 1996
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: Re: input to output!/Photo CD stuff

Doug,
Hey thanks for the advice on resolution. We were about to start rescanning
at 1200 dpi. I'll pass the word on to the guys in charge. That will sure
save me time sitting in front of the computer!Great advice!!Sooo, what dpi
would you suggest?600 or 300 dpi? This will be printed, not for CD stuff.

Hope your trip to New Yawk was good!Any news?
Cheers, Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 16 09:34:45 1996
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To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Frank Ippolito)
Subject: Re: input to output!/Photo CD stuff


>Hi, Polly. This is almost identical to what I'm going through with my 400
>scanned beetle photographs. I had a firm in Oregon do the original scans
>with Kodak PhotoCD (which, believe it or not, came out a few "f stops" too
>*light*, but that's relatively easily adjusted by increasing the contrast)

Hi Doug,

Just a note here. You might try to compensate for the *lightness* of your
scans by using the image/adjust/levels menu option. When chosen, this will
give you a dialog box with a histogram with three arrow-like control
points. If you grab the center arrow and pull it from right to left, you
will be adjusting the lightness of the image without tossing out data. This
is desirable over using the image/adjust/contrast option which has only a
single ramped, linear control. BTW adjusting the end points will have to
same effect as the contrast adjustment, but bt the same token will also
thin out the tonal range.  Of course, if you are feeling intrepid, the
image/adjust/curves gives you the most control with an infinite series of
controll points to define and adjust. But this tool is very subtle and can
go easily astray.

$00.02

Frank

Frank Ippolito    [log in to unmask]
American Museum of Natural History


From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 18 08:21:10 1996
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 13:21:10 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
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Subject: Re[2]: input to output!/Photo CD stuff

Polly,
Use that formula I send you to figure the Scan dpi.

[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________________________

Doug,
Hey thanks for the advice on resolution. We were about to start rescanning
at 1200 dpi. I'll pass the word on to the guys in charge. That will sure
save me time sitting in front of the computer!Great advice!!Sooo, what dpi
would you suggest?600 or 300 dpi? This will be printed, not for CD stuff.

Hope your trip to New Yawk was good!Any news?
Cheers, Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949



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To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: input to output!/Photo CD stuff

From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 18 09:03:28 1996
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        [log in to unmask]
Subject: Kodak replies about PhotoCD

Here is some info from Kodak regarding my consern on aquireing Images in 
photoshop.
I'm not sure they have alayed my conserns but this is usful info.

[log in to unmask]
_________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dark Photo-CD Images in Photoshop

Hi Britt.

In a message dated 96-01-11 11:10:25 EST, you write:

>I feel Bob is not seeing it from the position of many users who are not as 
>familiar as himself.
>
Well...you're probably quite right. Don't forget that we who started down
this path in 1992 were told by Kodak that it was a consumer markets' service,
and that consumers would come in droves to us so that they could see their
pictures on TV. Obviously their market research was invalid, and lucky were
we who stumbled upon the pre-press market early on.

>>From the many conversations on this list, I as a average consumer/ in-house

>designer, am coming to the conclusion that Kodak/Photoshop is shipping
>inferior 
>transforms with KCMS. And that if one wants print quality imagery from the
>get-
>go, One must purchase other transform software such as Access Plus, or Perp 
>Impress(?), or make your own transforms, or find some secret hidden cache of

>transforms to plug into Photoshop.
>
>"What is really going on?"
>
>
So I guess it's really a very simple question to ask, right? 
Is it possible to write a transform that would allow opening of PCD images in
Photoshop that would preclude the necessity of adjusting levels manually
without sacrificing the images printable gamut?
Perhaps Bill O'such could shed some light....;-)

Regards,
Bob
------------------------------

End of PHOTO-CD Digest 820
**************************

_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First cut at response - dark images 
From:    [log in to unmask] (Bill O'Such) at Internet
Date:    1/17/96  10:10 AM

Given the traffic on "dark images", I wrote this general explanation which
I will also make available on the web.   Does this cover the issues ?
Comments before I post it to the listserver.

Dark images, etc. thread

In the past week there has been some considerable discussion about dark
images, bad images, etc. occurring with Photo CD.   Attached (I hope) is
some explanation that helps you understand what may be occurring, some
recommendations, and some advice.  This advice is oriented towards the
professional usage of Photo CD since that is the dominant application today
and in the future.

Color and tone reproduction issues when scanning images to Photo CD disks:

For professional usage of Photo CD, it is important that the customer and
the lab establish a dialog on the goals of the work and create a good
working relationship.  This is analogous to professional optical printing
versus consumer optical printing.   Good scans require good communications.

The PIW has the capability of applying an automatic algorithm to balance an
image which is called the Scene Balance Algorithm (or SBA). This algorithm
works well with amateur and advanced amateur images when properly setup.
However, it will not perform as well with many professional images as the
content is not consistent with the images used to design the algorithm.
Thus in some situations, especially with reversal film, it is desirable to
turn off the SBA.

Advice when scanning reversal film for professional use:

If the customer wants a scan consistent with the original, the film should
be scanned with Universal film terms (SBA is off with this film term) with
no user modifications. If the original is dark, the image on the Photo CD
will be dark, etc.  A light or dark slide may look fine in an optical
projector due to visual adaptation but may reproduce light or dark in a
scan.  Also many photographers tend to underexpose slides to enhance color
reproduction, thus a good slide may be a dark slide.

In the case where changes are needed to either correct a problem in the
original or to meet a customer preference (e.g. lighten a 1/2 stop
underexposed slide), the image should still be scanned with the Universal
fim terms.  For image modification, the best system is the PIW4220 since
the monitor is more stable and is calibrated to D5000.  Further, the
YCC/RGB values are shown in the preview and this system has more controls
for contrast, color contrast, saturation, etc.  The earlier PIW systems are
less optimal for precise image adjustment.

Advice when scanning negative film for professional use:

Negative film requires a somewhat different logic.  Since the negative is
not the aim but rather some relationship to a printed image, there is more
reliance on a consistent adjustment by the algorithm or the lab.  Further,
negative film tends to have more camera exposure variation than reversal
film either intentionally or accidentally.  This latitude is a big benefit
of negative film.

The lab should scan negative film with the film specific film terms and
make adjustments based on the customer-lab discussion.  However,
adjustments can be made more precisely and repeatably with the PIW4220
system which is designed for professional usage.  For the SBA to work well,
the lab must properly setup the algorithm or else unintended biases may
occur in the images.  The film terms which are shipped from Kodak with a
default setup which may or may not be good for the population of film seen
by the lab.

In some cases where the original photography is accurate, it might be
better to turn off the automatic algorithm.  One would then make a manual
adjustment for a representative image and hold that adjustment for the
entire order.  This is much like professional optical printing.  Having a
grey card in the scene will help the lab even more as a starting point
though the customer will need to explain the scene to neutral tradeoff that
they prefer.

Some helpful information on YCC values

Perfect 20% reflectance neutral objects have theoretical YCC values of 79,
156, 137.  However, many neutral objects are not entirely neutral including
some grey cards!  Also, in many films and images, there is an bias that is
intentionally applied to a neutral to provide a pleasing look.  Thus use
the above YCC values as guidelines.

How can I figure out what the lab did with my images ?

Each time an image is scanned, all the film term information, lab
adjustments (on the PIW4220 system only) and other information is stored
with each image.  The lab can read this information and display it (more
information is displayed on the Pro PIW 4220).  In the future, the Acquire
Module will have some features to display more information.  With this you
can determine if any undesirable changes were made to the disk.

OK.   I think I got a good scan, but the image still looks bad on my
computer  What's happening ?

Issues with reading a Photo CD disk

Photo CD images and Photo YCC are like "clay" in that the final image can
be molded for whatever output you prefer.  Unfortunately, there are many
ways to produce or render an image from Photo YCC.

Simple RGB rendering

In the MAC operating system, some public shareware (e.g. hpcdtoppm, xv)
uses a simple conversion from YCC to RGB.  In many cases, this image can
look good for multimedia applications or low cost printing, however when
used for pre-press, these images usually lose highlight detail, etc. even
though the information is actually on the Photo CD disk.   For the MAC OS,
many people read these phantom PICT files which are created by the
operating system and appear in the Photos folder thinking that they contain
all the detail in the original scan.  The real files are contained in the
/PHOTO_CD/IMAGESS directory.

Toolkit based color conversion

The Kodak Photo CD toolkit gives the software developer access to the
original YCC  and the above simple RGB rendering with some tone scale
modifications to retain highlight detail.  The Kodak Access Plus
application uses this conversion for its RGB rendering as does the Photo CD
Acquire modules 2.2 and earlier.  In this case a simple conversion is done
to RGB but instead of clipping the highlight information, it is processed
through a look-up table to retain that highlight information.  Several
look-up tables are included and one can actualy create their own tables
using a simple ascii editor.

Kodak Color Management based applications

Adobe Photoshop and other applications uses the KCMS computing engine to
perform more complex conversions from YCC to RGB, CIELAB, and CMYK.  The
Photo CD toolkit is used to access the YCC information, then the KCMS
toolkit does the rest of the processing.  This flexibility allows more
precise color rendering but can also create an opportunity for errors.  A
transform must be selected which converts from YCC to a reference position
(i.e. Source transformation) along with another transform from this
reference position to the desired color metric.  If either of these are
wrong, some unexpected reproduction can occur.  For example, if a gamma 1.4
monitor RGB transform is used to display to a gamma 2.2 monitor the image
can look too light.

It is important that one uses the most recent transforms.  For the source,
these are:

Universal E6 V2
Universal K14 V2
Universal Color Negative V3

I will try to purse their availability through the www site.  The Universal
Color Negative V3 transform is a significant improvement over the previous
versions.

KCMS made a conscious decision to acquire most transparencies slightly dark
and low contrast.  This allows original film information to be preserved
over a very broad range of exposure and processing.  If KCMS didn't do this
and optimize the system for a specific exposure and process than
information could be irretrievably sacrificed and the customer will be much
more dissatisfied.  This means that every image captured through the
Universal source transformation will require some tonal manipulation in
Adobe Photoshop.

In the hopes of providing the customer with a good solution to this dilemma
KCMS is moving in the direction of giving more than one choice for input
tonal transfer.  In Acquire V3 this will be provided in the form of effects
that can modify the input tonal transfer.

Other YCC to RGB conversions

Some software developers (e.g. Binuscan) have developed their own
conversions using a combination of the Photo CD toolkit and their own
proprietary algorithms.  These systems can produce good images but they
will not necessarily match the results from the previously mentioned
methods.

Monitor calibration

For those relying on the look of the image on their monitor, it is
important to use some type of monitor calibration especially when using a
method such as KCMS.  Calibration procedures can range from the simple
visual tools that require no instrument to instrument based tools.
Obviously the visual tools are not as precise as the instrument based tools
but it is better than using no adjustment at all.

Other advice:

Photo CD images are never sharpened before storage as sharpening is
dependent on the desired output and image size, thus sharpening should be
applied to all Photo CD images.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill O'SUCH                     |  Internet:         [log in to unmask]
Eastman Kodak Company           |  Interoffice Mail: 5/1/VIL, MC 07001
26, rue Villiot                 |  Phone:            +33 1 40 01 32 84
75594 Paris Cedex 12            |  FAX:              +33 1 40 01 33 40
FRANCE                          |  KNET:             78 13284
Kodak information: http://www.kodak.com, ftp.kodak.com, CIS:GO EKODAK



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To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],          [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Bill O'Such)
Subject: First cut at response - dark images 

From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 18 07:24:11 1996
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)

I'm sorry Britt-

I have my braindead afternoons and I didn't remember reading a
formula!!BUT...I'll look it back up in my archives of SciArt-L! SORRY- I'm
having one of those weeks that you were better off staying in BED!!! Ooooh,
-45 degree windchill will do that to you!Gotta love the midwest!


Thanks so much!I'm just a bit out of it!!THANKS!!!!!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan 19 10:51:43 1996
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From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: test?
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:06:09 -0600 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

The furlough and then snowstorm have kept me off e-mail and probably
other govt workers and those dependent on the govt.machines.
  Be sure to register to vote in your primary and general elections
-- and then kick out the reactionaries.
Elaine









Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
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From: Maureen M Carey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Photo CD
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi Everyone,
 I'm trying to find information about how to put together a photo CD. 
I've been following the current thread but most of it is beyond my 
experience. Is there a basic manual, good instruction book - anything 
written about how to go about putting together a photo CD? I graduated 
from the Science illustration program at the University of California 2 
yrs ago and still have to complete my internship. As I have a full time 
job and family, I can't leave the area, but had thought it might be 
interesting to put together a photo CD of alumni work. I'd learn and 
would have a useful product in the end. But I'm finding that very few 
people here on campus have experience with this sort of thing. Any 
suggestions? Where did you all learn? Were you born knowing how to do 
this? I'd appreciate any help. 

 Thanks in advance.

Maureen Carey
Triano Press Archive
The University Library
University of California
Santa Cruz, CA 95064

(408) 423-5600
<[log in to unmask]>
From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan 19 13:07:44 1996
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
        [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reply to PhotoCD Inquireys

>Bill,
>
>This is the portion of your article that is most helpful to me as a end user/
>designer, especially the part I have maked in "******".
>The decision to "acquire most transparencies slightly dark and low
>contrast" is
>the problem I am seeing on my systems.  If this is the case, don't I lose some
>fidelity (information) when I correct that problem in Photoshop?

You won't lose dynamic range but you will induce some quantization effects
since any 8bit to 8bit conversion that isn't a straight line induces
quantizaton.

>
>Does the next paragraph Imply some ability is coming to tweak the transform
>behavior in the aquisition proccess? Will this give me superior data to
>tweaking
>the file after it is in Photoshop?

Yes.  The tweaking will be limited within the acquire module but I think
KCMS might actually make available a profile tweaker that would let someone
basically do almost anything......no promises on the latter.

>
>[log in to unmask]
>_______________________________________
>
>Kodak Color Management based applications

>***********************
>KCMS made a conscious decision to acquire most transparencies slightly dark
>and low contrast.  This allows original film information to be preserved
>over a very broad range of exposure and processing.  If KCMS didn't do this
>and optimize the system for a specific exposure and process than
>information could be irretrievably sacrificed and the customer will be much
>more dissatisfied.  This means that every image captured through the
>Universal source transformation will require some tonal manipulation in
>Adobe Photoshop.
>*************************
>In the hopes of providing the customer with a good solution to this dilemma
>KCMS is moving in the direction of giving more than one choice for input
>tonal transfer.  In Acquire V3 this will be provided in the form of effects
>that can modify the input tonal transfer.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill O'SUCH                     |  Internet:         [log in to unmask]
Eastman Kodak Company           |  Interoffice Mail: 5/1/VIL, MC 07001
26, rue Villiot                 |  Phone:            +33 1 40 01 32 84
75594 Paris Cedex 12            |  FAX:              +33 1 40 01 33 40
FRANCE                          |  KNET:             78 13284
Kodak information: http://www.kodak.com, ftp.kodak.com, CIS:GO EKODAK



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From: [log in to unmask] (Bill O'Such)
Subject: Re: First cut at response - dark images

From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 22 06:53:44 1996
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Photo CD

PhotoCD is a very specific item and is generally only possible to make from film 
images scanned onto a PhotoCD disk with PhotoCD scanners, so the process is real 
simple.  Get together slides and negs up to 4x5" and find a PhotoCD Scan service 
that you trust to do a good job of scanning the film. An alterative is the 
PortfolioCD disk which can accept PhotoCD Scans as well as other electronic file 
types. 

It may be possible to take an electronic bitmap image you have scanned yourself 
and have it converted to the PhotoCD format, but I don't think that is a do-it-
yourself possibility, and I don't think the average photo store would offer that 
service. You'll need to shop around.

The other method of diplaying artwork is as a multimedia presentation, which 
generally means using some sort of presentation software to hook all the images 
together and then write the whole thing to WritableCD, but that doesen't sound 
like what you have in mind. It would also be the most time consuming.

[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Photo CD

Hi Everyone,
 I'm trying to find information about how to put together a photo CD. 
I've been following the current thread but most of it is beyond my 
experience. Is there a basic manual, good instruction book - anything 
written about how to go about putting together a photo CD? <snip>

Maureen Carey
Triano Press Archive
The University Library

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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: Maureen M Carey <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Photo CD

From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 22 02:49:46 1996
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From: Maureen M Carey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Photo CD
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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HI Britt,
 Thanks for the information. Actually I want to use the PhotoCD for
instructional purposes and need to index the images in a variety of ways,
by title, scientific name, artist, subject, etc.  As for time, well It's
going to take time either way, and since I work at an unrelated job... My
main ojective is to learn about the process and produce a useable product
for the program.
 Are there any manuals, articles, etc. to read?

Thanks again,
 Maureen Carey

On Mon, 22 Jan 1996 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> PhotoCD is a very specific item and is generally only possible to make from film 
> images scanned onto a PhotoCD disk with PhotoCD scanners, so the process is real 
> simple.  Get together slides and negs up to 4x5" and find a PhotoCD Scan service 
> that you trust to do a good job of scanning the film. An alterative is the 
> PortfolioCD disk which can accept PhotoCD Scans as well as other electronic file 
> types. 
> 
> It may be possible to take an electronic bitmap image you have scanned yourself 
> and have it converted to the PhotoCD format, but I don't think that is a do-it-
> yourself possibility, and I don't think the average photo store would offer that 
> service. You'll need to shop around.
> 
> The other method of diplaying artwork is as a multimedia presentation, which 
> generally means using some sort of presentation software to hook all the images 
> together and then write the whole thing to WritableCD, but that doesen't sound 
> like what you have in mind. It would also be the most time consuming.
> 
> [log in to unmask]
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> Subject: Photo CD
> 
> Hi Everyone,
>  I'm trying to find information about how to put together a photo CD. 
> I've been following the current thread but most of it is beyond my 
> experience. Is there a basic manual, good instruction book - anything 
> written about how to go about putting together a photo CD? <snip>
> 
> Maureen Carey
> Triano Press Archive
> The University Library
> 
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> Subject: Photo CD
> 
> 
From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 22 11:19:28 1996
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Subject: Re[2]: Photo CD

HI Britt,
 Thanks for the information. Actually I want to use the PhotoCD for
instructional purposes and need to index the images in a variety of ways,
by title, scientific name, artist, subject, etc.  As for time, well It's
going to take time either way, and since I work at an unrelated job... My
main ojective is to learn about the process and produce a useable product
for the program.
 Are there any manuals, articles, etc. to read?

Thanks again,
 Maureen Carey
---------------------

If you are using a Mac or PC, My first Idea would be to Use Adobe Fetch or 
Cummulus or similar picture database software.  Which everone you pick should be 
able to catalog PhotoCDs. You should be able to write your database and pictures 
to a large hard drive and then to a WritableCD. I don't have any good resource 
suggetions, but check magazine indexed  And definatly check the World Wide Web.  
Kodak and other companies have a lot of info online these days.

Another possibility is to use the New 3.0 vers. of Filemaker Pro, or a similar 
database software. This is a relational database that should allow you to hook a 
picture together with a datarecord without incorporating the actual picture file 
into the database.

Britt

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To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Photo CD

From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan 24 04:22:39 1996
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: jopbs jobs jobs!!

Here is a job a friend told me about that is posted on the University of
Michigan employment pages-THEY HAVE A WEB SITE TOO!!!Once I find it I'll
post it too!!Who ever said there are no jobs for us!!!!???????
Unfortunately, the job closes 1-26-96!!ONLY TWO MORE DAYS!!!good luck!Tell
all your friends!Polly


Job Family: Professional/Administrative
Posting No: T-96-0151-JL
Job Title: SR GRAPHIC ARTIST
Grade: 07
Min/Max: $ 21,400/ 55,300
Department: Museum Of Zoology
Open/Close Date: 01/15/1996 // 01/26/1996
Job Class: 19438
Hours: 40.00

DUTIES:
       Provide detailed, accurate drawings of biological specimens (output
may be in the form of
       hard copies, slides, photographs or files formatted to meet the
requirements of a wide
       variety of scientific journals); advise curators and students
concerning various computer
       graphics problems; assist in the layout and formatting of the Musuem
of Zoology's
       in-house publications; provide illustrations for a variety of books
and journals with
       different production procedures.

MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS:
       Bachelor's degree in art, graphic design or a related field, or an
equivalent combination of
       education and experience; knowledge of the principles, practices and
techniques of
       scientific illustration, graphic design and publication, including
photography and slide
       production; ability to work with a variety of software packages,
including Adobe
       Illustrator and Adobe Photoshop; ability to use camera lucida
equipment; knowledge of
       techniques specific to biological illustration, such as correct
orientation of specimens and
       use of appropriate media; interest in the field of zoology, and
ability to complete
       illustrations of diverse organisms, primarily arthropods, molluscs
and vertebrates; ability
       to work successfully with different curators and graduate students;
willingness to work
       independently to increase knowledge and skills.
Present applications for this position to the following office:

Ann Arbor Campus Employment Services Offices
Room G250 Wolverine Tower
3003 South State Street
Ann Arbor, Michigan  48109

313-764-6580

8AM- 5PM, M-F

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan 24 10:34:23 1996
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Subject: Re: jopbs jobs jobs!!
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Hi 

Very interesting job description.... they are asking for an 
extraordinary range of experience and technical capabilities
for the salary they are offering... I would have thought 
50k would be a good starting point..not the high end of the
salary range. Also, it has been my experience working at
NASA and now for a gov't contractor that jobs only posted
for one week mean they already have an inside person in mind
to fill the position. They are required to post the job for
one week only....sort of just to say they complied with
regulations.

But good luck to anyone who is seriously applying...sounds 
like a job with a lot of variety, fun and challenges...

And speaking of challenges...my office was burglarized during
the night...I came in to find both my mac IIci and my
new Powermac 8100 gone....along with ALL my systems and
fantastic graphics software...I had recently maxed out my
powermac..installed a 4 gig 2nd drive, 80 MB RAM...i think
the most painful is the lost software..all my printer drivers
are gone. I can't even run the equipment that wasn't taken..
sigh... a long road ahead. We all know how long it takes to
set up a custom system....

Cheers....Jaynie


From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan 24 14:01:07 1996
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 19:01:07 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
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Subject: Re[2]: jopbs jobs jobs!!

That's real heart stopping...

Hope you were backed up somewhere at least partly.

If you have good insurance coverage, it should mean a real nice system is in 
your future.

Britt
_______________________________________________________________________________
<snip)

And speaking of challenges...my office was burglarized during
the night...I came in to find both my mac IIci and my
new Powermac 8100 gone....along with ALL my systems and
fantastic graphics software...I had recently maxed out my
powermac..installed a 4 gig 2nd drive, 80 MB RAM...i think
the most painful is the lost software..all my printer drivers
are gone. I can't even run the equipment that wasn't taken..
sigh... a long road ahead. We all know how long it takes to
set up a custom system....

Cheers....Jaynie



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Subject: Re: jopbs jobs jobs!!

From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 25 02:47:40 1996
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: WOW!

Jaynie,
WOW!!!I'm totally shocked!Sorry about your misfortune!! Wish there was
something we could do!! Hope you had some kind of back up!!  HANG IN
THERE!!!!

Also....50k????SERIOUSLY??? I want to know where THOSE jobs are. Certainly
not those kinds of salaries in Academics? Or am I wrong? I've been talking
to some collegues and everyone has said that starting salaries for
scientific illustrators should be between 35-50k.  Is that in private
industry...or freelance averages?? I ask everyone...IS THIS A REALISTIC
expectation? I've been working in academics too long!! Seriously...I was
shocked!

I looked at that job description (  I thought "basic museum artist job
description")...and the pay scale and thought "whew, 50k?" Lucky dogs!!

I also thought that they must have someone in mind because of the short
time, but you never know! I just happened upon it yesterday! I thought,
"what the heck, I'll pass the info along!"

Keep us posted...hope you have a better day today!! You know, you could buy
a really cool set up if you win the Powerball!! hee heee hee!!  :) Polly


Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 25 03:31:46 1996
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From: Simpson <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re:  Re[2]: jopbs jobs jobs!!

Jeez, Jaynie, how horrible!
As Britt says, it's a backup lesson to all of us.  Good luck.

-Clara Simpson
From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan 26 07:49:13 1996
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Clare,
My thoughts exactly!!oh, I'm not interested in the job, but wheeew what a
salary!WE "museum slaves" should be soooo lucky!! ;) TOO MUCH SNOW in Ann
Arbor for me!!We are having a small blizard right now and I'm thinking of
high-tailing it to the Bahamas!!!hee hee- hows the carbeon dusting these
days???
______

Jayne,
At least you get NEW TOYS!!! and better toys at that!
I work for a museum and THAT is exactly what I do. I just figured everyone
else did that stuff too!!  Sooo, what are they teaching kids in school
these days! ;) Actually, that is a question I have been wondering about.
WHAT is the curriculum for a scientific illustration program these days?
Obviously, I don't have a degree in Sci. Ill.

it is WONDERFUL to see job postings! it does give students and others
hope!!Good luck and keep us posted! By the way, where DO you work?Are you
freelance?Polly


Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 25 03:36:35 1996
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From: Simpson <[log in to unmask]>
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To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:  WOW!

As for that salary, I'm afraid my reaction to Jaynie's comment was
more along your lines, Polly.  At least in Museum circles, the
money isn't there in any real quantity in most places (am I wrong?).
But they are interesting jobs, with hard money there's some security
and benefits.  Also Ann Arbor must be cheaper to live in than the
NE corridor.

The job description did sound pretty cool..but I do agree with Jaynie 
that they probably have someone in mind.  (Go for it anyway, P.)
-Clara
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jan 25 07:37:39 1996
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hi Polly....how kind of you and Britt to offer your condolences...
There is one spot of good fortune here though....I had fought
and won funding for a 3 gig slot on an NT server in our computer
center, and had just backed up ALL my drawings(7,000) several
weeks ago. The equipment was insured and I am now in involved
in the grueling process of reodering, etc. But Britt is right..
I will be getting a Powermac 8500 to replace the 8100...newer
and faster!!!  

About the job listing....I don't think 46-50k is out of line
considering the scope of skills and experience they are asking
for. In fact, for 'minimum requirements' the list is so loaded
with items that take years of experience that it appears to be
a tailored job description to me. (One needs to have used PS
for at least 2 years to be considered a professional user).
To ask for camera lucida knowledge, graphics software experience
AND experience dealing with service bureaus, possibly supervising
or assisting others...That is a LOT to ask...Nobody could walk
straight out of a 4 year degree and offer that kind of range.. 

Sounds like a fun job though...it's great to see artist job
listings posted...makes me feel we aren't such a rare breed
after all!!  :^)

Thanks again for the kind words......Jaynie


From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan 26 11:40:22 1996
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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:40:22 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: jobs
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Hi again Polly and Claire....and thankyou for your kind words!

You ladies are both right in that illustrators in general are an
underpaid group...we have to be soooooo self-motivated. And the
markets are hard, really hard to break into. My background is
2 years in Fine Art (Painting) at UNC-Greensboro, NC....it was
too slow, not what I was looking for. I found my nitche several
years later in Commercial Art school. I have used every single
skill i learned in that wonderful place...even though it was
before the computer graphics era...While I greatly enjoyed the
liberal arts field, it was at the commercial art school that I
rapidly acquired the skills to seek a place in the hard-driving
art world. I loved every second.  When I married and moved to
Newport News, VA...military land....I had a portfolio geared to
the Greensboro furniture market, but within 6 months I had 
successfully competed with 11 male applicants for a NASA 
illustrator position. 5 years at NASA, doing everything from
full color poster size paintings of satellites dangling above
earth to zillions of conference illustrations, work for 
publications ....the thing i love about the research industries
is that you NEVER know what is going to walk in your door next.
Do you find that is true??

I once again competed with an all-male crowd for the sole illus
position here at CEBAF (Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator
Facility)...so now i am delving into the world of sub-atomic
physics...i find it fascinating beyond my wildest dreams...

Now if I could just weld my 'new toys' (incoming replacement
computer, etc) to the building...ho ho. 

I don't know about you artists out there, but I wouldn't trade
my unusual illustrator's life for the world. Except for a 
museum position :^) ...it is more solitary than I would like
here, but the salary and benefits make up for that... I
feel we female illustrators have extraodinary lives at this
time in human history. We contribute so much on a daily basis...

I would love to hear how other artists found thier niches.....

take care out there......

Jaynie Martz
Technical Illustrator, CEBAF
Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility


From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan 26 11:54:03 1996
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me again Polly....I don't have a degree in scientific illustration..
in fact, i have never even had a formal computer graphics class...
learned it all on the job. ...self-taught for the most part. I
think most of us are, don't you?

I have noticed the local community colleges are working hard to
come up with a commercial/computer graphics degree...but i worry
that the students are not getting enough bare bones drawing
skills...if you can't do it on paper, you can't do it on a
computer either. 

stay warm.....Jaynie


From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan 26 10:23:56 1996
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: bare bones drawing!

Hi Jayne,
here here!!!not enough "bare bones drawing" NO PUNN intended!! Yes, I think
MOST of us are self taught at some level. I have met so many illustrators
that got into this profession thru the back door, not through a specific
scientific illustration degree. The people of this group are so diverse and
interesting! I've learned a lot from these discussions and this group of
people. Besides I think that GNSI is the nicest group of professionals that
I have ever met! SERIOUSLY!Very enthusiastic, encouraging, NON competetive,
friendly!! I must say that I'd like to get more of the students (Santa
Cruz, Georgia, J. Hopkins, etc...) subscribed to SciArt-L. Please spread
the word!

I got an email from a student at Georgia studying scientific illlustration.
And she was very interested in networking and looking for summer
internships and jobs! So everyone please keep those posts coming!!!Have a
good weekend!!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Fri Jan 26 12:54:07 1996
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Subject: Re: bare bones drawing!
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yep...i like the friendly, non-competitive atmosphere of this group
too!!  I am looking for connections to other professionals..and
what I like about being a scientific illustrator at a research
facility is that we are always working on growth projects, not
just 'art for profit'. (as in ad agencies,etc). I have nothing
against artists going in that direction at all...it is just not
for me. And good for any professional reaching out to help those
struggling students....some of them are so outstanding, so hungry
and raring to start working...I try to be encouraging when they
call....the ones that want it bad enough will find a way to 
make it. A little encouragement goes a long way.......

time to head home, feed the kitties and turn on the X-FILES...
GEE...X-FILES or tax forms, X-FILES or tax forms...wonder
which I will choose??  ho ho

take care.....Jaynie


From [log in to unmask] Sat Jan 27 08:32:29 1996
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Schools, internships?

Gan anyone offer info on schools and/or internships for scientific
illustration for someone with a double degree (Biology and art).

Thanks!
From [log in to unmask] Sat Jan 27 08:28:55 1996
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From: "Kristine A. Kirkeby" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Re[2]: jopbs jobs jobs!!
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 14:28:55 -0600

In message <[log in to unmask]>  writes:
> That's real heart stopping...
> 
> Hope you were backed up somewhere at least partly.
> 
> If you have good insurance coverage, it should mean a real nice system is in 
> your future.
> 
> Britt
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> _
> <snip)
> 
> And speaking of challenges...my office was burglarized during
> the night...I came in to find both my mac IIci and my
> new Powermac 8100 gone....along with ALL my systems and
> fantastic graphics software...I had recently maxed out my
> powermac..installed a 4 gig 2nd drive, 80 MB RAM...i think
> the most painful is the lost software..all my printer drivers
> are gone. I can't even run the equipment that wasn't taken..
> sigh... a long road ahead. We all know how long it takes to
> set up a custom system....
> 
> Cheers....Jaynie
> 
Hi gang... A word of advice.  While I worked at the Univ. of Minnesota, shortly 
after computers were becoming common items and some of us were branching out 
into fancier stuff... we started experiencing a rash of computer thefts.  It 
turned out that the University had an insurance policy that had a $8,000 limit 
on electronic equipment. Thefts had to amount to MORE than $8000 before any 
monies were paid out.   When this was happening there weren't a lot of studios 
that had systems worth $8,000, contrary to todays situations. This prompted 
people to put up signs saying 'please take the printer and all the software is 
in the bottom left side of the file"...But the point is...does your 
company/university have an insurance policy that actually will replace your 
basic set-up??  Check it out.  Take care!  Kris 


From [log in to unmask] Sat Jan 27 08:46:14 1996
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From: "Kristine A. Kirkeby" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Nat. Sci. Illus. training
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 14:46:14 -0600

Hi gang!
Interesting discussion on how we get into this field.  I think we have the basis
of a book!!! "A National Trail System Guide to Finding Jobs in NSI"!!
The Guild of Natural Science Illustrators is in the process of updating the 
Courses and Books brochure we have.  That publication lists universities that 
have actual degree programs, schools that may have limited duration training, 
etc.  We expect that brochure to be updated and out by the early part of '97.  
The current copy can be obtained, for a slight cost, by writing to P.O. Box 652,
Ben Franklin Station, Washington, D.C. 20044.Phone: 301-309-1514 
Take care!  Kris Kirkeby GNSI President


From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 29 02:43:42 1996
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: from Joseph Trumpey

Greetings everyone!

Here is some news you might of not been aware of (I have been working on
a little article for the newsletter but haven't had a chance to finish)
- The graduate program in Medical and Biological Illustration at the
University of Michigan (the one founded by Jerry Hodge) has moved from
the Medical School to the School of Art and Design.  We are still
strongly affiliated with the Med School, but are now a much bigger fish
in a much smaller pond.  Our facilities and funding, including
scholarships, have greatly improved!  Another added bonus of the move is
that we now offer a BFA degree in Scientific Illustration!

This is our second year here and the BFA degree has been very popular;
currently we have 26 declared majors!  In addition to all the regular
art and design courses, we offer a series of 5 scientific illustration
courses revolving mainly around technique and subject matter.  Many
(most?) of these students are interested in moving on to grad school in
medical illustration, but several are very interested in museum work.
One of the experiences the students are asking me for is internships...
I am aware of the one offered at the Smithsonian, but do any of you know
of others that are available??  If you don't know of any sites, would
any of you be interested in starting one??

If any of you are ever in the area I would be happy to show you our new
digs and around campus.  I am always looking for "real life"
illustrators to talk to the students and show their work.

Thanks!

Joe

Joseph E. Trumpey
Assistant Professor
University of Michigan
School of Art and Design
MFA Prog in Med and Biol Ill
BFA Prog in Scientific Ill
[log in to unmask]
313-747-3416


PS  I don't have an inside line about the recent posting at our museum,
but as far as starting salaries go, I tell my students to be prepared to
see a range of 19K-35K.  Most of our med ill grads start at about 26-28K
+ benefits - we did have a record last year with one starting at 39K!

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 29 06:56:32 1996
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:56:32 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Nat. Sci. Illus. training
To: [log in to unmask]
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hi Kris...thanks for the brochure info. How does one become
a member of NGSI? Is this a juried thing? Invitation only?

thanks ....Jaynie 

Jaynie Martz
Technical Illustrator, CEBAF
Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility


From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 29 07:55:40 1996
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Re[2]: jopbs jobs jobs!!
To: [log in to unmask]
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ah yes....computer theft insurance on the job! This facility is
part of a university research consortium (we work with over 
40 southeastern universities, Duke Univ, Cornell), but as a 
gov't contractor these 'small' items are not insured...you just
have to hope there is money to replace.... Theft just seems
to be an accepted part of communal life. It is also the reason
I left the Fine art program at a liberal arts university after
2 years...A huge oil painting i had worked on for months
'disappeared' the night before we were graded. Luckily, my
professor was very familiar with it and gave me a A...but I
just couldn't take any more ambushes at that point. smaller
thefts had been occuring before that..and you know how 
expensive art supplies are...When i transferred to commercial
art school there were only small, very occassional thefts...
I could take a supply theft, but not theft of my work..
I was putting myself through school days, working nights and
weekends...no extra time or money to replace things at that
point. 

but hey...at least this time I get to reorder 'new toys' as
Polly put it!!!  New toys with Apple stickers plastered all
over them....

Cheers...Jaynie

Jaynie Martz
Technical Illustrator, CEBAF
Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility


From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 29 08:03:59 1996
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask]
Organization: College of Vet. Med
Date:     Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:03:59 EST
Subject:  Info to suscribe to this list
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0.5
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

Hello Group,

I am in need of the procedure and appropriate information
to subscribe to this list.

I would like to pass it along to the Georgia Sci. Ill. students.


Allison Lucas Wright, MS, CMI
Medical Illustrator
Educational Resources
College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Georgia
Athens, GA

706/542-5710

[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 29 08:37:02 1996
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:37:02 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: Re: from Joseph Trumpey
To: [log in to unmask]
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hi Joe....this is absolutely fascinating. Does your Illustration
dept have a web site? If not, would you mind describing some of
the courses taught in obtaining a medical/scientific illustration
degree? at the BFA level....  I am delighted to see 4-yr
institutions now preparing artists for a specific market. This
was not the case when I attended.
Cheers...Jaynie 

Jaynie Martz
Technical Illustrator,CEBAF
Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility


From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 29 06:53:41 1996
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: SciArt-L info!!!

SciArt-L Users Discussion List--

SciArt-L: The On-line forum for Natural Science Art
An internet discussion list sponsored by the Guild of Natural
Science Illustrators (GNSI) and hosted by the University of Nebraska
Computer Center for members of the Guild of Natural Science Illustrators
and individuals that are interested in natural science illustration.

GNSI  Inc. is a non-profit organization of persons employed, or genuinely
interested in the field of natural science illustration. As an organization
we:

* Promote better understanding of the profession by the general public and
those persons requiring natural science illustration service.

* Desire to maintain and further the profession through increased
communication of those involved.

* Encourage and assist others with the desire and capabilities to enter the
profession.

* Increase respect for the profession through encouraging high standards of
competence and ethics.


The purpose of this list is to allow members of GNSI Inc. and others
listserv subscribers to share information, ideas, and problems as related
to natural science illustration. Please view this Listserv as a friendly
place to share your experiences with people who share the same interests in
natural science illustration.

SciArt-L users may also post announcements of interest such as
announcements, publications, network resources, technique tips, workshops,
suppliers for hard-to find art materials, questions, and related news.

If you are interested in joining this mailing list, you can send an
electronic mail message to:

[log in to unmask]

-With the following command in the body of your email message:

subscribe SciArt-L and your given name
ex: SciArt-L Britt Griswold

The list software will automatically get your email address from the header
in your message.

Messages to be posted are sent to [log in to unmask]

If you have technical support issues that need immediate attention, send a
message:

[log in to unmask]

-With the following command in the body of your email message:

help


If you have any comments, questions or suggestions about SciArt-L, feel
free to contact Pauline Denham. [log in to unmask]



Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 29 07:05:20 1996
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:05:20 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: from Joseph Trumpey
To: [log in to unmask]
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wow Joe!  A BFA in Scientific Illustration?  I have now truly
died and gone to heaven....you facility sounds wonderful. 
26 majors???  double wow.....ONly one complaint....it's not
located down HERE! :^)

Cheer....Jaynie

Jaynie Martz
Technical Illustrator, CEBAF
Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility


From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 29 06:58:54 1996
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 12:58:54 CST
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: National Archives Online Resources

>Date:         Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:21:11 -0500
>Reply-To: Visual Resources Association <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: Visual Resources Association <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Debra Steidel Wall <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject:      National Archives Online Resources
>Comments: To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
>          [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
>          [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
>          [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
>          [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
>          [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
>          [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
>          [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
>          [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
>          [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
>To: Multiple recipients of list VRA-L <[log in to unmask]>
>
>    NARA LAUNCHES NEW ONLINE RESOURCES
>
>The National Archives and Records Administration has released two
>new public access services and a new agency homepage that allow,
>for the first time, the public to search NARA databases over the Internet.
>
>*** NARA AUDIOVISUAL INFORMATION LOCATOR (NAIL) DATABASE****
>The NAIL database contains 81,000 series and item-level descriptions of
>material held by the Still Picture Branch and the Motion Picture, Sound,
>and Video Branch , as well as information about ordering copies.   Data
>come from existing databases and from card catalog scanning projects,
>and will continue to grow.
>
>Address: http://www.nara.gov/nara/nail.html
>
>**** GOVERNMENT INFORMATION LOCATOR SERVICE (GILS)
>DATABASE****
>The GILS database is NARA's response to OMB Circular 96-01 that
>mandates that all Federal Agencies make available online information
>about automated information systems and a catalog of information
>products by January 1, 1996.
>
>Address:  http://www.nara.gov/gils/gils.html
>or  Z39.50:    [log in to unmask]
>
>****   NARA HOMEPAGE ****
>The existing gopher-based homepage has been replaced with a new
>front end that utilizes World Wide Web technology.
>
>Address: http://www.nara.gov/
>
>Comments, suggestions, and criticisms are encouraged and needed.
>Thank you.
>


From [log in to unmask] Mon Jan 29 10:01:22 1996
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:01:22 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: from Joseph Trumpey
To: [log in to unmask]
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Graduate school in medical illustration...it sounds quite glamorous..
Is there really an advantage to advanced degrees in specialized
illustrating? (other than the very valuable experience, of course)
Are starting salaries higher?  Do research institutions and 
large pharmaceutical companies send out feelers in your direction,
looking for speciality artists? People who can come right in, sit
down and start producing?  

Cheers Joe......Jaynie Martz


From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 30 06:53:11 1996
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:53:11 -0500 (EST)
From: David Anthony Dennis <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:Internships
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hello Everyone,
	I'm an undergraduate scientific illustration student at the University
of Michigan, and I'm new to the list.  I've been working under Joe 
Trumpey for the last couple of years, and I'm looking for any possible 
summer internships in the field.  If anyone has any leads, I'd appreciate 
hearing about them.
								Sincerely,
								 David Dennis
From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 30 05:00:20 1996
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 11:00:20 CST
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: internships

Internships previously posted on SciArt-L:

Engineering Animation, Inc. is currently  seeking scientific illustrators
for illustration/animation intership opportunities. Interested applicants
should be accomplished in traditional media and have an interest in the use
of high-end 3-D modeling and animation software, and interactive multimedia
authoring tools. Experience with modeling  and animation tools is not
necessary;however, familiarity with IBM and Machintosh systems and digital
paint programs is strongly recommended. For more information call Laura
Williams or Carrie DiLorenzo at (515) 296-9908.


Engineering Animation, Inc.
ISU Research Park
2625 North Loop Drive
Ames, Iowa 50010


From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 30 07:24:54 1996
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:24:54 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ILLSTRTR digest 27 Jan 1996

Her is an interesting tip for those on the web or creating web art.
>From my Illustrator Listserve:
[log in to unmask]
__________________
>>Does anybody know how to import an RGB Photoshop palette into Illustrator?
>>Specifically, I'm looking to bring the CLUT palette (common 8-bit System
>>colors between the Mac & PC platforms) into Illustrator for WWW design
>>purposes.
>
>You can't import an RGB palette into Adobe Illustrator because Illustrator
>*only* deals with life in the CMYK colorspace.  I would recommend going the
>other way -- create your art in Illustrator then drag it over to PageMill
>or Photoshop for rasterization.  Both applications then have their own
>tools for optimizing the art for the web.
>
>
>-DougO
>
>[log in to unmask]
>Voice: (612) 783-3867
>Fax: (612) 783-3989

There is a wonderful PDF file available on Adobe's web site (under Tips and
Tricks or something like that) called Luanne's Color Translation from
Illustrator to Photoshop. (Presumably Luanne is Luanne Cohen, who frequents
this list.) It explains how to use Photoshop's Printing Inks Setup to
create a custom setup for more faithful rasterization of CMYK art in an RGB
space. It is especially noticeable (at least for me) when rasterizing reds,
which tend to darken and look desaturated. If you do a lot of on-screen
art, check out this PDF!

madison, wi


----------
Yep. Its the same Luanne! My Photoshop color guru tells me that my method
is not 100% accurate. He's one of the Photoshop engineers and explained to
me that Photoshop and Illustrator display colors to the screen slightly
differently. However, this technique will get you pretty darned close.

-Luanne

Luanne Seymour Cohen
Creative Director, Adobe Systems Inc.
[log in to unmask]
voice: 415-962-2701
fax: 415-962-0850

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To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask] (Max Newell)
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From: [log in to unmask] (pascal)
Subject: Re: ILLSTRTR digest 27 Jan 1996

From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 30 09:33:30 1996
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)
Subject: Wow

Britt,
THANK YOU! for forwarding that trick for Illustrator!!!I had a lady on
campus call me YESTERDAY about that SAME problem!! THANK YOU!!!I'll pass
the info along!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 30 09:41:37 1996
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From: [log in to unmask] (Pauline Denham)

Britt,
Ooops, actually she wants to draw in Illustrator and use a color gradient.
THEN open it up in Photoshop and change the file format for Authorware
and/or WWW jpeg/gif files without flattening the layers and loosing her
color gradients. Any suggestions?

I suggested doing the drawing in illustrator then opening the line drawing
in Photoshop and putting the color gradients in using PHotoshop. Will it
still flatten the color gradients even if they are done in Photoshop?

How about Debabblizer, will that work without loosing the resolution for
color gradients????

YOU see, Illustrator ONLY gives you an EPS file and she needs a jpeg/or gif
output!!!THANKS in advance!Polly

Pauline Denham
Museum Artist
University of Nebraska State Museum
[log in to unmask]
phone-402-472-2657
fax-402-472-8949


From [log in to unmask] Tue Jan 30 12:01:44 1996
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:01:44 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: gradients
To: [log in to unmask]
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Hi Polly...as far as I know, the only format that saves without
flattening completely is Photoshop 3.0. All other formats
flatten.....If i understand correctly, your friend wants to
import an EPS line art into PS, then needs to convert the
rasterized PS file to gif for the web. 

I always lose definition when the file has to be Indexed and giffed.
Don't have a computer at the moment so i am doing this from memory,
but I think I do this:

1-Save a copy for flattening (always keep a PS 3.0 copy for easy
changes).
2-Mode/Indexed color/diffused (that helps smooth out the rough
gradients a bit)
3-Now save file as PICT and open in GIFconverter. (I think this
is shareware, can be downloaded. It's a great little web helper)
4-Open file in GIFconverter and save in desired format. I always
choose GIF (no, not the peanut butter  :^)  ugh)

Hope this is what you were asking....Jaynie Martz


From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan 31 02:53:30 1996
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From: "Kristine A. Kirkeby" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Nat. Sci. Illus. training
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 08:53:30 -0600

In message <[log in to unmask]>  writes:
> hi Kris...thanks for the brochure info. How does one become
> a member of NGSI? Is this a juried thing? Invitation only?
> 
> thanks ....Jaynie 
> 
> Jaynie Martz
> Technical Illustrator, CEBAF
> Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility
> 
>Hi Jaynie...
The Guild of Natural Science Illustrators has about 1200 members.  To join , 
just contact our office: GNSI, P.O. Box 652, Ben Franklin station, Washington 
D.C., 20044.  The dues are $45 per year. We have no portfolio requirements and 
we are an educational organization.  For your dues, you receive 11 issues of the
Newsletter with great technique articles, artist profile,s and lots of goodies 
on things you can attend in regional areas. You also get a Journal, now being 
published about 1 per 2 years.  We have chapters, so members can interact on a 
regional basis and we have an annual meeting, usually one week long, (this year 
it is in D.C.) that is packed with workshops and field trips and lectures, all 
for a reasonable cost. These meetings are special because the atmosphere is very
informal and professional information is widely and willingly shared...its a 
great meeting for beginners and 'strangers' to come to! Let me know if I can 
provide further information.  Take Care!  Kris Kirkeby, GNSI President



From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan 31 08:10:59 1996
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Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 96 13:10:59 EST
From: Elaine Hodges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: bare bones drawing!
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Message of Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:42:26 -0600 from <[log in to unmask]>

Let me add my condolences to those of others regarding Jaynie's
misfortune, but I am so glad that you backed up your work and
are going to get even better equipment.
Good luck.
  This is a good group.  And I, too, learned sci.ill. skills, etc.
on the job, with just fine arts training background and a little
science.  Went back to school for more science in my late 30's.
(Now I'm about to turn 59, so I've had some years to learn a lot
and have learned most from our wonderful GNSI colleagues.)
Elaine




Elaine R.S. Hodges, Scientific Illustrator
MRC 169, National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C. 20560
Phone: 202-357-2128, Fax: 202-786-2894
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan 31 10:35:47 1996
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 id <[log in to unmask]> for [log in to unmask]; Wed,
 31 Jan 1996 15:35:47 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:35:47 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: bare bones drawing!
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[log in to unmask]"
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Delighted to hear from you Elaine!  What a fascinating, educated group
of people on this list......I am going to join GNSI immediately...
can hardly bear to wait for my first newsletter. And such a great
range of ages...(I just turned 40...eeek...I LIKE it!). My replacement
Power mac comes in Friday...software came in today (except for that
darn Illus 6.0) so i will be up and running in no time. 

Thanks again to everyone on this list who sympathised with my plight
...I
feel positively 'rich' now though...new stuff ooming in and meeting
fellow illustrators here who also draw 'weird things'...(don't we
just love it though!) Life is good today!!!

Cheers.....Jaynie

Jaynie Martz
Technical Illustrator, CEBAF
Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility


From [log in to unmask] Wed Jan 31 10:51:14 1996
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 id <[log in to unmask]> for [log in to unmask]; Wed,
 31 Jan 1996 15:51:14 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:51:14 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: bare bones drawing!
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[log in to unmask]"
Mime-Version: 1.0
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good ole Britt....I never would have known about this group if he
hadn't run across me in the Photshop list, told me about it. I hope
folks will feel free to describe some of the projects they have
worked on....medical illustrators drawing icky innards? Museum
artists...what are you guys working on right now?  Did anyone in
this group help set up the Vermeer exhibit? the closest I got to
it was via tv, but even then the work was mesmerizingly beautiful.

Cheers....Jaynie

Jaynie Martz
Technical Illustrator, CEBAF
Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility

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