Liz: What I can say is, Marlene and I have discovered that manually tracing something is NOT satisfactory. We always trace off of a scan. I always trace into Illustrator using the freehand tool. Sometimes it puts too many points. I am usually tracing maps. For smooth surfaces I might use the pen tool (then why do I need the Wacom??). I also know you can select loose or tight somewhere... The actual tracing is not faster. It's the flexibility once it is in there that is so useful. With the new Illustrator you can put a TIFF file on a back layer. It has much more detail than a PICT and though Illustrator has designed in the PICT tracing thing it is very crude. Others? Yes, Emil, Paul is right, so just shoot yourself, you too, Frank. Or take Paul's approach and output that thing through the window. Happy Holidays, everyone! Clara