Master Gottfried:  Unlike many of the other GOA's, the definition between the arts and sciences gets either arbitrary, or cheesy.  Yours, mine, and every body else's.  I don't think any craft be it mostly "art" or "science" can be truly or even partly be  "mastered" without a dose of the other.  Often it depends on an individual's approach to a craft.   Much of the issue comes into play when royalty are faced with an individual which has in fact clearly reached grant level but when discussed in one order that order concludes they should be in the other and when discussed in the other order it also concludes that the individual should be in the other.  It is the privilege and duty of the crown to make the final decisions on who gets what awards.  It can sometimes be forgotten that the counsel and especially  consensus of the orders is just that: Council.  If the crown does something unexpected a lot of folks go WTF and get all offended.  The simplest solution would be one that I too am much opposed to, dispenses with tradition, and combines the orders. The other solution is:


You can bow all you want but petty grumbling about there decisions shows the level of sincerity you have in that bow, and for the hard work, time and money they spend to be in that position, and to make what for all of us is the highest part of pageantry and inspiration in these current middle ages: court.

Much of this discussion might be put into better perspective by thinking for a moment about what awards are.  In my mind they are TOOLS.  That might surprise some people but think about it.  When one is RECOGNIZED with an award, It puts a label on them that says this is an honorable person that knows a fair bit about their craft that can and will teach you about it if you ask.  They are labeled as a "go to" person.  I would even say that they have the responsibility to teach and go to the order meetings and that is why they get the right to wear a particular dubbis on there person and get to use the HL(or any other) title with there name.  (What! You mean some people really think there really are rights and responsibilities!....Oh yeah!)  So first it is a tool for the populous to identify those with a wee bit of creditability.  Secondly it is a tool that can be used for inspiration.  To inspire the individual receiving it, and to inspire those around them.  This is a non profit organization.  It runs of of passion and inspiration.  The more the awards the better.

While my recognition has been entirely in the science side of things (apparently I do nothing pretty ;>) ) and I have been lucky enough to have been bestowed a peerage.  There are certainly those who are not so lucky and are seen lacking in some aspect of there participation in the SCA.  Not always is it under there control.  Perhaps they have physical, finical, reasons.  Perhaps, like me in my current situation, they do not have weekends off there job, and can't go to enough events to become well enough known to be considered at the peerage level. ( I think I would be in that situation if I were not already a laurel)  This might be an appropriate place to use the ambiguity between the two orders and give the other to inspire the individual.  Again this may be a place to HONOR AND RESPECT THE CROWN FOR THEIR TAKING THEIR TIME TO RESEARCH WHAT THE INDIVIDUAL  HAS DONE, AND FOR MAKING THOSE DIFFICULT DECISIONS! We are poling orders not voting ones.

On 1/5/2014 6:57 PM, John Sherman wrote:
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Greetings one and all,

Something that has bothered me for more than several years and many Reigns:
Every year or so we have the same subject come up. Combining the Arts GOA's and the Sciences GOA's under one award. What bothers me about this is the difference in the two discipline tracks which I define loosely as: Arts-I can break it with a hammer (yes I can break Elizabethan costume with a hammer), and Sciences-I make it with a hammer, it is my definition-one that works for me.
I hear no discussion occurring on combining the now 3 different Marshallate GOA's under the same thought process, although by logic if it is good for one to streamline its good for all.
I am opposed to a combined A&S GOA. It leaves many starting over in the awards structure as then the pool of individuals to satisfy becomes much larger, and the number of folks who know nothing of the craft in question are now getting to discuss folks without adequate basis in the skills required.
The biggest concern here is that the people who always want this to happen, are people who already have these awards, and just seem to want to put a mark on Kingdom history and customs, IMO be it good or bad. That is a rather self-centered and self-serving stance IMO. There was a reason for the creation of the current award structure, and one that has served us well.
Discuss away

Master Gottfried von Koln, OP