Combining arts and sciences is somewhat ironic issue, against the backdrop of proliferating martial orders and awards, from the relatively-recent establishment of the equestrian orders to the readily-foreseeable pressure for distinct C&T orders once a sufficient participant base is established.

I don't see a net positive from combining Art and Science orders, myself.  In the Hammer meetings now, for instance, there is a minority of folk present who actually know the ins and outs of any candidate's craft, and I can't see how adding a large number of people even less connected to any one particular sort of work would improve things. The one thing it might actually do would be to reduce the number of meetings by a small number each year, but those meeting would be twice as large and twice as long, which is a net negative.   

It's certainly true that for the most part, Science works also involve an element of Art, and the reverse is generally true as well.  Some people are uncomfortable with even the most trivial ambiguity, but most seem to be perfectly able to handle it.  We have traditional distinctions to follow in this, and what is the Society or its Kingdoms if not organizations about traditions?  I don't see an overriding reason to upset the existing tradition on this, despite the fact it may have certain warts...warts which would not necessarily be improved by AoA and GoA unification of A&S awards.

Paul Adler

On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 6:57 PM, John Sherman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Greetings one and all,

Something that has bothered me for more than several years and many Reigns:
Every year or so we have the same subject come up. Combining the Arts GOA's and the Sciences GOA's under one award. What bothers me about this is the difference in the two discipline tracks which I define loosely as: Arts-I can break it with a hammer (yes I can break Elizabethan costume with a hammer), and Sciences-I make it with a hammer, it is my definition-one that works for me.
I hear no discussion occurring on combining the now 3 different Marshallate GOA's under the same thought process, although by logic if it is good for one to streamline its good for all.
I am opposed to a combined A&S GOA. It leaves many starting over in the awards structure as then the pool of individuals to satisfy becomes much larger, and the number of folks who know nothing of the craft in question are now getting to discuss folks without adequate basis in the skills required.
The biggest concern here is that the people who always want this to happen, are people who already have these awards, and just seem to want to put a mark on Kingdom history and customs, IMO be it good or bad. That is a rather self-centered and self-serving stance IMO. There was a reason for the creation of the current award structure, and one that has served us well.
Discuss away

Master Gottfried von Koln, OP

Vince Zahnle
COL, USA, Ret.