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Hi Mali,

Victoria Finlay's book on pigments is one of my all time favorite books.
Just fascinating! You mention you have other interesting books on the
topic? I would love the references please!

Thanks, Lore


On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:09 PM, mali moir <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Karen,
> I thought Indian Yellow claimed to be made from the urine of cows fed
> solely on mango leaves, a practise the Indian Government banned in the
> early 1900s. However I just read an update to my knowledge ...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_yellow
> I love pigment manufacture history and have a couple of great books on it.
>
> I am sorry to say I am not a vegan artist, however I abide by the
> philosophy of 'using the whole animal'. I paint on vellum from the leather
> industry, I buy sable brushes from the fur industry, eggs, honey, milk,
> gelatine ... if these industries were to vanish I would certainly find
> alternative materials. I do have a particular concern about the plastics
> industry and I try to avoid using plastic generally .... a very hard ask
> indeed !
> Yes would love to know more about the vegan watercolour
>
>
> ........ Mali
>
> Mali Moir
> Botanical, Scientific & Natural History Artist
> Melbourne Australia
> Tel: 0422 575 034
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:10:42 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
>
> Subject: Re: [SCIART] sable brushes
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>
> The company, a Canadian one (or at least with a Canadian outlet) called Colors
> of Nature, recently contacted Animal Alliance of Canada, of which I’m a
> director, asking for an endorsement.   I always thought of watercolours as
> being mostly vegan, but the concept of supporting a product that is overtly
> vegan has an obvious appeal for an organization like ours, so I tried to
> get a sample from them, but couldn’t get the webpage they set up to work
> for me (it has a space for asking for samples).   So my colleague who they
> first approached is trying to get the sample for me to test.
>
>
>
> On their webpage they only show a small range of colours, so I’m not
> really sure what they have (this all in the last couple of days and I’ve
> been too busy to pursue it myself).
>
>
>
> No, I don’t make my own paints and I don’t use egg tempera nor rabbit skin
> glue…no need for my methods.  I have used casein but don’t like it, and
> haven’t actually bought any in decades, however, I have never done
> silver-point.   I do like the new “open” acrylics…not only because of their
> slower drying property, but for their texture.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>
> *Barry Kent MacKay*
>
> *Bird Artist, Illustrator*
>
> Studio: (905)-472-9731
>
> http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration-
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Karen Ackoff
> *Sent:* January-20-14 11:57 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: [SCIART] sable brushes
>
>
>
> Barry,
>
>
>
> The "vegan watercolors" sound interesting. Since watercolors are generally
> made of pigment and gum arabic (plant-derived), sometimes honey, and
> sometimes a fungicide such as thymol (don't know if formaldehyde is still
> used)… there are no animal-derived ingredients unless you are looking at
> the pigment itself. Most are either plant or mineral, sometimes a chemical
> reaction or precipitate… with the exception of a few pigments like bone
> black (lamp black being a good substitute), Indian yellow (which used to be
> derived from the urine of cows fed on saffron, I think; but this is no
> longer the case), vermillion made from cochineal beetles, and a few others.
>
>
>
> One way to know what you have is to make your own watercolors (which a
> friend of mine does, and says they are creamier and richer than any
> commercial watercolors he's used).
>
>
>
> It does get difficult to avoid animal products when you need things like
> rabbit skin glue (for gesso for egg tempera), and of course the eggs for
> egg tempera. And as just mentioned, sable brushes. I've yet to find a good
> synthetic brush substitute. The synthetic brushes I've used are find at the
> start, but I can wear one out in an afternoon. Small detail sable brushes
> can last me a year of hard use. Then there are paper sizes… I imagine that
> acrylic sizes are used often now (and I don't like the feel at all), and
> prefer gelatin sizes… which gets us back into animal-derived products.
> Casein (milk-derived), which makes a nice ground for silverpoint.
>
>
>
> Would love to hear more about this from you. Are you looking at a specific
> brand? Or are you making your own? And if you're making your own, what
> binder(s) are you using? Fungicide (if any)?
>
>
>
> K
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2014, at 10:03 PM, Lore Ruttan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Oh, that makes sense that they are a by-product of the fur trade (one of
> those 'doh of course' moments on my part!). I don't wear real fur but still
> it makes me feel a little better.
>
>
>
> I always thought that age was at least in part a state of mind and you
> sound positively youthful in your experiments!
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Barry K. MacKay <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> Agreed.  In fact, I’m a vegan (diet and clothing) or at least “veganish”
> (I know a few folks who are self-righteously fanatical about it, and I am
> not one of them) and try to find non-animal art products whenever I can,
> but it’s very difficult.   I hope to test a new “vegan” watercolour soon.
> And not only that, I work on animal trade issues as well, and have attended
> several Conferences of the Parties to CITES.  But that said, I’ve always
> heard that the hairs used tend to be at least a by-product of the fur trade.
>
>
>
> Mustelids don’t really do well in captivity (although we are often told
> they do) due to their high metabolism, activity and home range sizes…there
> is a lot of stress-related illness in them.   I have found that synthetics
> work for me for all but the finest brush (WN 000 Series 7), but that’s just
> me and my particular style of work.   I don’t do washes as such.
>
>
>
> I also find, and this is a bit embarrassing, that even at a rather
> advanced age, I keep discovering new ways of doing things, with the same
> old materials, or with new ones.
>
>
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>
> *Barry Kent MacKay*
>
> *Bird Artist, Illustrator*
>
> Studio: (905)-472-9731
>
> http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
*Lore Ruttan, *Ph.D.

Lore Ruttan Illustration <http://www.loreruttanillustration.com>

Visit my Etsy shop at http://www.etsy.com/shop/Paperlore

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