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Fine.  What kind of "protection" do you suspect Adobe had for it's
customers' credit card info?

Suit yourself,
b


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Liz Lockett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Carbonite is a secure backupsite used by business and even has
> certified hippa compliant storage so I personally would feel fine backing
> up financials with them.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> Thanks Liz and Barbara:
>> I do worry a bit about financial information going into the cloud, and
>> theft.
>> L.
>> _____________________
>> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>> P.O. Box 325
>> Hereford, AZ 85615
>> (520) 803-0538
>> www.lindafeltner.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2014, at 4:02 AM, Liz Lockett wrote:
>>
>> Linda,
>>
>> It sounds like you already have multiple large drives.  I know its an
>> investment but I would highly recommend you getting a small raid system.
>> There are some great ones out there that are not had to manage, and as you
>> say, have the built in redundency should one drive fail,  I would also
>> recommend using a remote location as Britt suggests like Carbonite or
>> Google drive.  You do pay a yearly fee but its not unreasonable and that
>> gives you security if the raid is stolen.  Most remote storage can be set
>> up to automatically sync with the local raid so you are always covered.
>>
>> Liz
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:43 AM, Barbara Gleason <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>
>>> Just a note to all, here is another thing to think through when deciding
>>> how and when and where to put backup drives.
>>>
>>> I would highly recommend you have two separate, duplicate backups of
>>> some nature and hide, store offsite, etc. one of them. Why? One always
>>> thinks one is backing up to forestall the inevitable hard drive failure,
>>> but one is also possibly backing up to prevent theft of said backup drives!
>>>
>>> Never thought about that aspect of this issue until we were burglarized
>>> 2 summers ago and hard drive were stolen...the drives we didn't hide since
>>> we didn't realize we should have!
>>>
>>> (It didn't have a completely disastrous ending, though, as the one drive
>>> they didn't take, because it was heavily marked with name, etc. had indeed
>>> failed and been replaced by the new one, which they took. Tech folks were
>>> able to recover most files on it after the burglary.)
>>>
>>> So, now we have two sets of backup drives, in 2 locations, well hidden
>>> or off-site. A but more hassle, but heck, well worth it!
>>>
>>> Barbara
>>>
>>>    _
>>>  ( '< * -*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*--
>>>  / ) )
>>>  //"  "
>>>
>>> Wild Birds Unlimited of Eugene
>>> Barbara Gleason
>>>
>>> Store phone: 541-844-1788
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> 2510 Willamette Street, Eugene, OR 97405
>>>
>>> www.facebook.com/eugenewbu
>>> www.eugene.wbu.com
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 10:00 PM, SCIART-L automatic digest system wrote:
>>>
>>> > There are 23 messages totaling 7108 lines in this issue.
>>> >
>>> > Topics of the day:
>>> >
>>> >  1. Housing selection (2)
>>> >  2. BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud (8)
>>> >  3. question about Time Machine (8)
>>> >  4. neutral grey (4)
>>> >  5. Boulder Registration is LIVE!
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 02:58:55 -0400
>>> > From:    Cindy Shaw <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Housing selection
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Marj (or anyone who may know),
>>> >
>>> > If one wants to register but isn't yet sure about whether or not to
>>> stay
>>> > on campus, can one add housing later?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Cindy
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Marjorie Leggitt wrote:
>>> >
>>> >  Dear GNSI'ers and all you List Servers,
>>> >
>>> > GNSI Conference Registration goes live on Tuesday, April 1st and this
>>> is
>>> > not a joke! Go to https://www.conf.gnsi.org/registration/
>>> > <https://www.conf.gnsi.org/registration/>
>>> >
>>> > There, you can download a Paper Registration PDF to peruse the overall
>>> > offerings and options, or to use as a worksheet.
>>> >
>>> > Please be sure to check out the new postings at
>>> > https://www.conf.gnsi.org/program/ <https://www.conf.gnsi.org/program/
>>> >
>>> > . You'll find information about the outstanding keynotes speakers plus
>>> a
>>> > listing and descriptions of the exciting mini-workshops, workshops, and
>>> > field trips. Also, look over the partial list of the Core Conference
>>> > presentations - we still have more to add!
>>> >
>>> > Looking forward to seeing you in Boulder!
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> >
>>> > Marjorie
>>> > Chair of the 2014 GNSI Conference - Boulder CO
>>> > July 13-19, 2014
>>> > https://www.conf.gnsi.org/ <https://www.conf.gnsi.org/>
>>> >
>>> > Leggitt Design
>>> > 303.394.0566
>>> > [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > http://www.science-art.com/leggitt <http://www.science-art.com/leggitt
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________________________
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> > instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> > <http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv>
>>> >  <http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv>
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 01:43:50 -0600
>>> > From:    Marjorie Leggitt <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: Housing selection
>>> >
>>> > Cindy,
>>> >
>>> > It is certainly best if you register for everything at the same time
>>> as the
>>> > on-line form takes you through the process in one sweep. You cannot
>>> return
>>> > to the form at a later date and add housing.
>>> >
>>> > If, for some reason you are unable to sign up for housing when you
>>> register,
>>> > you will have to call the registration team and make arrangements with
>>> them.
>>> > I definitely do not want to encourage people to do this though.
>>> >
>>> > Marj
>>> > Leggitt Design
>>> > 303.394.0566
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> > http://www.science-art.com/leggitt
>>> >
>>> > Chair of the 2014 GNSI Conference - Boulder CO
>>> > July 13-19, 2014
>>> > https://www.conf.gnsi.org/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Cindy Shaw <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Reply-To: LIST SERV discussion <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 02:58:55 -0400
>>> > To: LIST SERV discussion <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: [SCIART] Housing selection
>>> >
>>> > Marj (or anyone who may know),
>>> >
>>> > If one wants to register but isn't yet sure about whether or not to
>>> stay on
>>> > campus, can one add housing later?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Cindy
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Marjorie Leggitt wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Dear GNSIšers and all you List Servers,
>>> >
>>> > GNSI Conference Registration goes live on Tuesday, April 1st and this
>>> is not
>>> > a joke! Go to https://www.conf.gnsi.org/registration/
>>> > <https://www.conf.gnsi.org/registration/>
>>> >
>>> > There, you can download a Paper Registration PDF to peruse the overall
>>> > offerings and options, or to use as a worksheet.
>>> >
>>> > Please be sure to check out the new postings at
>>> > https://www.conf.gnsi.org/program/ <https://www.conf.gnsi.org/program/>
>>> .
>>> > Youšll find information about the outstanding keynotes speakers plus a
>>> > listing and descriptions of the exciting mini-workshops, workshops, and
>>> > field trips. Also, look over the partial list of the Core Conference
>>> > presentations - we still have more to add!
>>> >
>>> > Looking forward to seeing you in Boulder!
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> >
>>> > Marjorie
>>> > Chair of the 2014 GNSI Conference - Boulder CO
>>> > July 13-19, 2014
>>> > https://www.conf.gnsi.org/ <https://www.conf.gnsi.org/>
>>> >
>>> > Leggitt Design
>>> > 303.394.0566
>>> > [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > http://www.science-art.com/leggitt <http://www.science-art.com/leggitt
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________________________
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions
>>> > at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> > <http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv>
>>> > <http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv>
>>> > ________________________________________________
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions
>>> > at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 10:39:47 -0700
>>> > From:    Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud
>>> >
>>> > Does anyone backup their Mac Time Machine to the Cloud? What means to
>>> you use?
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Linda
>>> > _____________________
>>> > Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> > P.O. Box 325
>>> > Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> > (520) 803-0538
>>> > www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 10:48:22 -0700
>>> > From:    Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: question about Time Machine
>>> >
>>> > For those who use Mac Time machine, I wondered why one cannot resize
>>> the partitions in an external drive?
>>> > I am consulting to the knowledgebase online. I have an external HD
>>> with two partitions. The MAC Disk Utility will not all me to re-size the
>>> volumes. I'm about half full (with old backups) and I'd like to resize the
>>> partitions, or eliminate the one that was first created and has nothing on
>>> it.
>>> > But it won't let me do that.
>>> >
>>> > I understand that TM will erase the old backups when it reaches full
>>> (when set on automatic), and copy over the new backups. I use a manual
>>> backup.  One place said just to delete and reformat the hard drive back to
>>> one partition. But I'm a bit hesitant to lose any complete backup of the
>>> whole Mac system.
>>> >
>>> > Just wondered if this was a common thing (not being able to resize the
>>> partitions.)
>>> >
>>> > I might have to shop for another external drive, and would also
>>> appreciate any brands that are new and proven reliable. I've got OWC,
>>> Hitachis, Maxtors.
>>> >
>>> > thanks
>>> > Linda
>>> > _____________________
>>> > Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> > P.O. Box 325
>>> > Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> > (520) 803-0538
>>> > www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 13:49:29 -0400
>>> > From:    Karen Ackoff <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud
>>> >
>>> > I don't backup to the cloud. For several reasons... 1) I don't have
>>> enough space on the cloud to back up my entire hard drive. 2) For security
>>> reasons; I keep tax records, receipts, etc. on my computer, and I don't
>>> want these on the cloud, regardless of security claims. I'm just not that
>>> trusting yet. I'm referring to the Apple Cloud, in regard to amount of
>>> storage space.
>>> >
>>> > I did query carbonite... and that is an option, I suppose. You can
>>> backup your hard drive, but you cannot back up any external hard drives if
>>> you use a Mac.
>>> >
>>> > Also, I only have access to DSL where I live, and it would literally
>>> take months for the first backup as upload speeds are slow.
>>> >
>>> > I'm hoping my internet upload speeds improve over time, and cloud
>>> options also improve and are affordable. But for now, I keep things at home.
>>> >
>>> > I did recently set up a RAID array (from scratch; I did not purchase
>>> an already configured RAID). I bought two 4 TB drives and set them up as a
>>> mirror RAID. It is a big improvement over the 9 (!) external hard drives
>>> that I had previously. It was just too many wires and too many plugs and
>>> not enough receptacles. The only downside, is that the RAID takes about
>>> 20-30 seconds to spin up if it is in a sleep mode. But other than that,
>>> it's great not to have to think about cloning a drive. It just works.
>>> >
>>> > K
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Does anyone backup their Mac Time Machine to the Cloud? What means to
>>> you use?
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Linda
>>> >> _____________________
>>> >> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >> P.O. Box 325
>>> >> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >> (520) 803-0538
>>> >> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 13:53:36 -0400
>>> > From:    Karen Ackoff <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: question about Time Machine
>>> >
>>> > I'm clear how you are trying to re-size partitions.
>>> >
>>> > First of all, you cannot adjust partitions with data on the drives.
>>> You'd have to wipe the drive completely, and then reset your partition(s).
>>> I don't know that you can specifically set the size of a partition, but you
>>> can choose the number of partitions for a particular drive. But this must
>>> be done at the initial set up.
>>> >
>>> > If you want to keep the old Time Machine backups, unplug the drive and
>>> plug in a different drive. Keep the old drive as an archive, and set up the
>>> Time Machine for the new drive.
>>> >
>>> > As for drives... I cannot stand Western Digital, though they are popular
>>> and generally cheap. I usually use LaCie, and they've been reliable, except
>>> for one drive (and I suspect it overheated over time because I had it
>>> mounted extremely close to another drive; I suspect it didn't cool
>>> sufficiently although it did take years for the drive to fail).
>>> >
>>> > K
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> For those who use Mac Time machine, I wondered why one cannot resize
>>> the partitions in an external drive?
>>> >> I am consulting to the knowledgebase online. I have an external HD
>>> with two partitions. The MAC Disk Utility will not all me to re-size the
>>> volumes. I'm about half full (with old backups) and I'd like to resize the
>>> partitions, or eliminate the one that was first created and has nothing on
>>> it.
>>> >> But it won't let me do that.
>>> >>
>>> >> I understand that TM will erase the old backups when it reaches full
>>> (when set on automatic), and copy over the new backups. I use a manual
>>> backup.  One place said just to delete and reformat the hard drive back to
>>> one partition. But I'm a bit hesitant to lose any complete backup of the
>>> whole Mac system.
>>> >>
>>> >> Just wondered if this was a common thing (not being able to resize
>>> the partitions.)
>>> >>
>>> >> I might have to shop for another external drive, and would also
>>> appreciate any brands that are new and proven reliable. I've got OWC,
>>> Hitachis, Maxtors.
>>> >>
>>> >> thanks
>>> >> Linda
>>> >> _____________________
>>> >> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >> P.O. Box 325
>>> >> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >> (520) 803-0538
>>> >> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 10:59:06 -0700
>>> > From:    Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud
>>> >
>>> > Thank you Karen. This is most helpful. With good reasoning.
>>> > I'm trying to keep my backups current and successfully.
>>> > I know the RAID systems have been wise.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks so much,
>>> > Linda
>>> > _____________________
>>> > Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> > P.O. Box 325
>>> > Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> > (520) 803-0538
>>> > www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Karen Ackoff wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I don't backup to the cloud. For several reasons... 1) I don't have
>>> enough space on the cloud to back up my entire hard drive. 2) For security
>>> reasons; I keep tax records, receipts, etc. on my computer, and I don't
>>> want these on the cloud, regardless of security claims. I'm just not that
>>> trusting yet. I'm referring to the Apple Cloud, in regard to amount of
>>> storage space.
>>> >>
>>> >> I did query carbonite... and that is an option, I suppose. You can
>>> backup your hard drive, but you cannot back up any external hard drives if
>>> you use a Mac.
>>> >>
>>> >> Also, I only have access to DSL where I live, and it would literally
>>> take months for the first backup as upload speeds are slow.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm hoping my internet upload speeds improve over time, and cloud
>>> options also improve and are affordable. But for now, I keep things at home.
>>> >>
>>> >> I did recently set up a RAID array (from scratch; I did not purchase
>>> an already configured RAID). I bought two 4 TB drives and set them up as a
>>> mirror RAID. It is a big improvement over the 9 (!) external hard drives
>>> that I had previously. It was just too many wires and too many plugs and
>>> not enough receptacles. The only downside, is that the RAID takes about
>>> 20-30 seconds to spin up if it is in a sleep mode. But other than that,
>>> it's great not to have to think about cloning a drive. It just works.
>>> >>
>>> >> K
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Does anyone backup their Mac Time Machine to the Cloud? What means
>>> to you use?
>>> >>> Thanks,
>>> >>> Linda
>>> >>> _____________________
>>> >>> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >>> P.O. Box 325
>>> >>> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >>> (520) 803-0538
>>> >>> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 14:00:35 -0400
>>> > From:    Barbara Harmon <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud
>>> >
>>> > I have been on Carbonite for four years or so. Love it.
>>> > Used it many times to save my butt or simply as convenience when
>>> traveling.
>>> >
>>> > I had DSL when I originally uploaded files, but I only had (I think)
>>> 500GB. I am able to backup my second 500GB drive as well.
>>> >
>>> > I want to hear more about the Apple Cloud too.... in the case I can
>>> ever get around to actually following through.
>>> > ;-)
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Barb
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Barbara Harmon
>>> > www.barbaraharmon.com
>>> > www.harmon-murals.blogspot.com
>>> > 508*430*8308
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:49 PM, Karen Ackoff wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I don't backup to the cloud. For several reasons... 1) I don't have
>>> enough space on the cloud to back up my entire hard drive. 2) For security
>>> reasons; I keep tax records, receipts, etc. on my computer, and I don't
>>> want these on the cloud, regardless of security claims. I'm just not that
>>> trusting yet. I'm referring to the Apple Cloud, in regard to amount of
>>> storage space.
>>> >>
>>> >> I did query carbonite... and that is an option, I suppose. You can
>>> backup your hard drive, but you cannot back up any external hard drives if
>>> you use a Mac.
>>> >>
>>> >> Also, I only have access to DSL where I live, and it would literally
>>> take months for the first backup as upload speeds are slow.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm hoping my internet upload speeds improve over time, and cloud
>>> options also improve and are affordable. But for now, I keep things at home.
>>> >>
>>> >> I did recently set up a RAID array (from scratch; I did not purchase
>>> an already configured RAID). I bought two 4 TB drives and set them up as a
>>> mirror RAID. It is a big improvement over the 9 (!) external hard drives
>>> that I had previously. It was just too many wires and too many plugs and
>>> not enough receptacles. The only downside, is that the RAID takes about
>>> 20-30 seconds to spin up if it is in a sleep mode. But other than that,
>>> it's great not to have to think about cloning a drive. It just works.
>>> >>
>>> >> K
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Does anyone backup their Mac Time Machine to the Cloud? What means
>>> to you use?
>>> >>> Thanks,
>>> >>> Linda
>>> >>> _____________________
>>> >>> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >>> P.O. Box 325
>>> >>> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >>> (520) 803-0538
>>> >>> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 14:00:51 -0400
>>> > From:    Britt Griswold <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: question about Time Machine
>>> >
>>> > Check this out!  The disc utility may be able to do this...
>>> > http://macs.about.com/od/applications/ss/diskutilitysize_3.htm
>>> >
>>> > If it was me, I would just reformat the disk as long as you are
>>> confident that all the important document on your main hard drive are in
>>> good shape, and your HD does not crash for the next day or so while the TM
>>> archive is rebuilt. Otherwise you will need a different hard drive.
>>> >
>>> > Britt
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: Karen Ackoff [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>>> > Sent: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 13:53:36 -0400
>>> > Subject: Re: [SCIART] question about Time Machine
>>> >
>>> > I'm clear how you are trying to re-size partitions.
>>> >
>>> > First of all, you cannot adjust partitions with data on the drives.
>>> You'd have to wipe the drive completely, and then reset your partition(s).
>>> I don't know that you can specifically set the size of a partition, but you
>>> can choose the number of partitions for a particular drive. But this must
>>> be done at the initial set up.
>>> >
>>> > If you want to keep the old Time Machine backups, unplug the drive and
>>> plug in a different drive. Keep the old drive as an archive, and set up the
>>> Time Machine for the new drive.
>>> >
>>> > As for drives. I cannot stand Western Digital, though they are popular
>>> and generally cheap. I usually use LaCie, and they've been reliable, except
>>> for one drive (and I suspect it overheated over time because I had it
>>> mounted extremely close to another drive; I suspect it didn't cool
>>> sufficiently although it did take years for the drive to fail).
>>> >
>>> > K
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 11:05:30 -0700
>>> > From:    Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: question about Time Machine
>>> >
>>> > Thank you, again.
>>> >
>>> > I can adjust the size of a partition at initial setup, along with the
>>> number, by using Mac Utility>Partitions. But not now, doing what I want. I
>>> can't add space to an existing partition that has data, yes.
>>> >
>>> > I'm shopping for new drives, although they've gotten less expensive
>>> for the storage, it's still not what I wanted to do today.
>>> > If I had the time and energy, I'd consolidate all my various external
>>> hard drives into one RAID system. In a world that was perfect.  while in
>>> haste, I may just drag and drop the important files, and deal with this
>>> when I get back in town.
>>> >
>>> > I'm looking at LaCie and Seagate and OWC-mercury Elite AL Pro (got one
>>> of those that I"m using now).. I've had several Hitachi's that were/are
>>> quite good. But I just keep making them redundant so if one finally goes it
>>> won't be disastrous.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers! and thanks again,
>>> > Linda
>>> > _____________________
>>> > Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> > P.O. Box 325
>>> > Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> > (520) 803-0538
>>> > www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Karen Ackoff wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I'm clear how you are trying to re-size partitions.
>>> >>
>>> >> First of all, you cannot adjust partitions with data on the drives.
>>> You'd have to wipe the drive completely, and then reset your partition(s).
>>> I don't know that you can specifically set the size of a partition, but you
>>> can choose the number of partitions for a particular drive. But this must
>>> be done at the initial set up.
>>> >>
>>> >> If you want to keep the old Time Machine backups, unplug the drive
>>> and plug in a different drive. Keep the old drive as an archive, and set up
>>> the Time Machine for the new drive.
>>> >>
>>> >> As for drives... I cannot stand Western Digital, though they are
>>> popular and generally cheap. I usually use LaCie, and they've been
>>> reliable, except for one drive (and I suspect it overheated over time
>>> because I had it mounted extremely close to another drive; I suspect it
>>> didn't cool sufficiently although it did take years for the drive to fail).
>>> >>
>>> >> K
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> For those who use Mac Time machine, I wondered why one cannot resize
>>> the partitions in an external drive?
>>> >>> I am consulting to the knowledgebase online. I have an external HD
>>> with two partitions. The MAC Disk Utility will not all me to re-size the
>>> volumes. I'm about half full (with old backups) and I'd like to resize the
>>> partitions, or eliminate the one that was first created and has nothing on
>>> it.
>>> >>> But it won't let me do that.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I understand that TM will erase the old backups when it reaches full
>>> (when set on automatic), and copy over the new backups. I use a manual
>>> backup.  One place said just to delete and reformat the hard drive back to
>>> one partition. But I'm a bit hesitant to lose any complete backup of the
>>> whole Mac system.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Just wondered if this was a common thing (not being able to resize
>>> the partitions.)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I might have to shop for another external drive, and would also
>>> appreciate any brands that are new and proven reliable. I've got OWC,
>>> Hitachis, Maxtors.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> thanks
>>> >>> Linda
>>> >>> _____________________
>>> >>> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >>> P.O. Box 325
>>> >>> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >>> (520) 803-0538
>>> >>> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 11:07:29 -0700
>>> > From:    Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: question about Time Machine
>>> >
>>> > THanks, Britt:
>>> > I think I can upload my important files to another drive, then
>>> reformat the one I've got.
>>> > Still considering another drive. but would rather not.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Linda
>>> > _____________________
>>> > Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> > P.O. Box 325
>>> > Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> > (520) 803-0538
>>> > www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Britt Griswold wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Check this out!  The disc utility may be able to do this...
>>> >> http://macs.about.com/od/applications/ss/diskutilitysize_3.htm
>>> >>
>>> >> If it was me, I would just reformat the disk as long as you are
>>> confident that all the important document on your main hard drive are in
>>> good shape, and your HD does not crash for the next day or so while the TM
>>> archive is rebuilt. Otherwise you will need a different hard drive.
>>> >>
>>> >> Britt
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: Karen Ackoff [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> >> Sent: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 13:53:36 -0400
>>> >> Subject: Re: [SCIART] question about Time Machine
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm clear how you are trying to re-size partitions.
>>> >>
>>> >> First of all, you cannot adjust partitions with data on the drives.
>>> You'd have to wipe the drive completely, and then reset your partition(s).
>>> I don't know that you can specifically set the size of a partition, but you
>>> can choose the number of partitions for a particular drive. But this must
>>> be done at the initial set up.
>>> >>
>>> >> If you want to keep the old Time Machine backups, unplug the drive
>>> and plug in a different drive. Keep the old drive as an archive, and set up
>>> the Time Machine for the new drive.
>>> >>
>>> >> As for drives. I cannot stand Western Digital, though they are
>>> popular and generally cheap. I usually use LaCie, and they've been
>>> reliable, except for one drive (and I suspect it overheated over time
>>> because I had it mounted extremely close to another drive; I suspect it
>>> didn't cool sufficiently although it did take years for the drive to fail).
>>> >>
>>> >> K
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 14:09:02 -0400
>>> > From:    Karen Ackoff <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud
>>> >
>>> > You refer to a second drive... I assume you mean an external drive? Are
>>> you backing up from a PC? You can backup an external drive from a PC, but
>>> not a Mac. Or at least, this is what the Carbonite people told me.
>>> >
>>> > I tend to keep all my data on external drives, with the exception of
>>> my most current work. This is so I can access it should the computer itself
>>> go down.
>>> >
>>> > It isn't difficult to set up a RAID, although the initial formatting
>>> (zeroing out all data) takes time (5 days for each 4 TB drive). My user
>>> group stressed the importance of zeroing out all data. Then setting up the
>>> RAID can be done from DISK UTILITY, and is pretty quick and painless. Then
>>> it took me a few hours to copy my data to it from my old drives.
>>> >
>>> > I do use DropBox and a similar service through my university. But I
>>> really don't use Apple's cloud for much.
>>> >
>>> > K
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 2:00 PM, Barbara Harmon <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I have been on Carbonite for four years or so. Love it.
>>> >> Used it many times to save my butt or simply as convenience when
>>> traveling.
>>> >>
>>> >> I had DSL when I originally uploaded files, but I only had (I think)
>>> 500GB. I am able to backup my second 500GB drive as well.
>>> >>
>>> >> I want to hear more about the Apple Cloud too.... in the case I can
>>> ever get around to actually following through.
>>> >> ;-)
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >> Barb
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Barbara Harmon
>>> >> www.barbaraharmon.com
>>> >> www.harmon-murals.blogspot.com
>>> >> 508*430*8308
>>> >> [log in to unmask]
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:49 PM, Karen Ackoff wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I don't backup to the cloud. For several reasons... 1) I don't have
>>> enough space on the cloud to back up my entire hard drive. 2) For security
>>> reasons; I keep tax records, receipts, etc. on my computer, and I don't
>>> want these on the cloud, regardless of security claims. I'm just not that
>>> trusting yet. I'm referring to the Apple Cloud, in regard to amount of
>>> storage space.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I did query carbonite... and that is an option, I suppose. You can
>>> backup your hard drive, but you cannot back up any external hard drives if
>>> you use a Mac.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Also, I only have access to DSL where I live, and it would literally
>>> take months for the first backup as upload speeds are slow.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm hoping my internet upload speeds improve over time, and cloud
>>> options also improve and are affordable. But for now, I keep things at home.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I did recently set up a RAID array (from scratch; I did not purchase
>>> an already configured RAID). I bought two 4 TB drives and set them up as a
>>> mirror RAID. It is a big improvement over the 9 (!) external hard drives
>>> that I had previously. It was just too many wires and too many plugs and
>>> not enough receptacles. The only downside, is that the RAID takes about
>>> 20-30 seconds to spin up if it is in a sleep mode. But other than that,
>>> it's great not to have to think about cloning a drive. It just works.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> K
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Does anyone backup their Mac Time Machine to the Cloud? What means
>>> to you use?
>>> >>>> Thanks,
>>> >>>> Linda
>>> >>>> _____________________
>>> >>>> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >>>> P.O. Box 325
>>> >>>> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >>>> (520) 803-0538
>>> >>>> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 14:10:22 -0400
>>> > From:    Karen Ackoff <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: question about Time Machine
>>> >
>>> > I have an old APC hard drive. The case is held together with duct
>>> tape. And it still works! Though at more than 10 years old, I'll be
>>> replacing it soon.
>>> >
>>> > K
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 2:05 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Thank you, again.
>>> >>
>>> >> I can adjust the size of a partition at initial setup, along with the
>>> number, by using Mac Utility>Partitions. But not now, doing what I want. I
>>> can't add space to an existing partition that has data, yes.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm shopping for new drives, although they've gotten less expensive
>>> for the storage, it's still not what I wanted to do today.
>>> >> If I had the time and energy, I'd consolidate all my various external
>>> hard drives into one RAID system. In a world that was perfect.  while in
>>> haste, I may just drag and drop the important files, and deal with this
>>> when I get back in town.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm looking at LaCie and Seagate and OWC-mercury Elite AL Pro (got
>>> one of those that I"m using now).. I've had several Hitachi's that were/are
>>> quite good. But I just keep making them redundant so if one finally goes it
>>> won't be disastrous.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers! and thanks again,
>>> >> Linda
>>> >> _____________________
>>> >> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >> P.O. Box 325
>>> >> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >> (520) 803-0538
>>> >> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 1, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Karen Ackoff wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I'm clear how you are trying to re-size partitions.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> First of all, you cannot adjust partitions with data on the drives.
>>> You'd have to wipe the drive completely, and then reset your partition(s).
>>> I don't know that you can specifically set the size of a partition, but you
>>> can choose the number of partitions for a particular drive. But this must
>>> be done at the initial set up.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If you want to keep the old Time Machine backups, unplug the drive
>>> and plug in a different drive. Keep the old drive as an archive, and set up
>>> the Time Machine for the new drive.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> As for drives... I cannot stand Western Digital, though they are
>>> popular and generally cheap. I usually use LaCie, and they've been
>>> reliable, except for one drive (and I suspect it overheated over time
>>> because I had it mounted extremely close to another drive; I suspect it
>>> didn't cool sufficiently although it did take years for the drive to fail).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> K
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> For those who use Mac Time machine, I wondered why one cannot
>>> resize the partitions in an external drive?
>>> >>>> I am consulting to the knowledgebase online. I have an external HD
>>> with two partitions. The MAC Disk Utility will not all me to re-size the
>>> volumes. I'm about half full (with old backups) and I'd like to resize the
>>> partitions, or eliminate the one that was first created and has nothing on
>>> it.
>>> >>>> But it won't let me do that.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I understand that TM will erase the old backups when it reaches
>>> full (when set on automatic), and copy over the new backups. I use a manual
>>> backup.  One place said just to delete and reformat the hard drive back to
>>> one partition. But I'm a bit hesitant to lose any complete backup of the
>>> whole Mac system.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Just wondered if this was a common thing (not being able to resize
>>> the partitions.)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I might have to shop for another external drive, and would also
>>> appreciate any brands that are new and proven reliable. I've got OWC,
>>> Hitachis, Maxtors.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> thanks
>>> >>>> Linda
>>> >>>> _____________________
>>> >>>> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >>>> P.O. Box 325
>>> >>>> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >>>> (520) 803-0538
>>> >>>> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 11:15:20 -0700
>>> > From:    Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: question about Time Machine
>>> >
>>> > OH, these directions were much better than what I previously
>>> found!!!!! Exact step by step, and did exactly what I wanted it to.
>>> >
>>> > Gosh, I've been searching for over an hour, and didn't come up with
>>> these directions.
>>> > Thank you very much!!!
>>> > L.
>>> > _____________________
>>> > Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> > P.O. Box 325
>>> > Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> > (520) 803-0538
>>> > www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Britt Griswold wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Check this out!  The disc utility may be able to do this...
>>> >> http://macs.about.com/od/applications/ss/diskutilitysize_3.htm
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 14:49:42 -0400
>>> > From:    Barbara Harmon <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud
>>> >
>>> > My other drive is inside the box but is a separate component - so is
>>> that considered external? Actually I hadn't originally been backing that
>>> one up until I called Carbonite an they said I could, so maybe it's not
>>> well-publicized or something... but I am very happy that I can. I'm on Mac.
>>> >
>>> > I also have 2 other external drives, but I just tend to not have them
>>> on automatic  back up (or even plugged in - too many wires etc) nearly
>>> frequently enough.... And I still have not fully utilized Dropbox. Thanks
>>> for the RAID info - had always wondered about that.
>>> >
>>> > Barbara Harmon
>>> > www.barbaraharmon.com
>>> > www.harmon-murals.blogspot.com
>>> > 508*430*8308
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 2:09 PM, Karen Ackoff wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> You refer to a second drive... I assume you mean an external drive? Are
>>> you backing up from a PC? You can backup an external drive from a PC, but
>>> not a Mac. Or at least, this is what the Carbonite people told me.
>>> >>
>>> >> I tend to keep all my data on external drives, with the exception of
>>> my most current work. This is so I can access it should the computer itself
>>> go down.
>>> >>
>>> >> It isn't difficult to set up a RAID, although the initial formatting
>>> (zeroing out all data) takes time (5 days for each 4 TB drive). My user
>>> group stressed the importance of zeroing out all data. Then setting up the
>>> RAID can be done from DISK UTILITY, and is pretty quick and painless. Then
>>> it took me a few hours to copy my data to it from my old drives.
>>> >>
>>> >> I do use DropBox and a similar service through my university. But I
>>> really don't use Apple's cloud for much.
>>> >>
>>> >> K
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 1, 2014, at 2:00 PM, Barbara Harmon <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I have been on Carbonite for four years or so. Love it.
>>> >>> Used it many times to save my butt or simply as convenience when
>>> traveling.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I had DSL when I originally uploaded files, but I only had (I think)
>>> 500GB. I am able to backup my second 500GB drive as well.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I want to hear more about the Apple Cloud too.... in the case I can
>>> ever get around to actually following through.
>>> >>> ;-)
>>> >>> Cheers,
>>> >>> Barb
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Barbara Harmon
>>> >>> www.barbaraharmon.com
>>> >>> www.harmon-murals.blogspot.com
>>> >>> 508*430*8308
>>> >>> [log in to unmask]
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:49 PM, Karen Ackoff wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> I don't backup to the cloud. For several reasons... 1) I don't have
>>> enough space on the cloud to back up my entire hard drive. 2) For security
>>> reasons; I keep tax records, receipts, etc. on my computer, and I don't
>>> want these on the cloud, regardless of security claims. I'm just not that
>>> trusting yet. I'm referring to the Apple Cloud, in regard to amount of
>>> storage space.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I did query carbonite... and that is an option, I suppose. You can
>>> backup your hard drive, but you cannot back up any external hard drives if
>>> you use a Mac.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Also, I only have access to DSL where I live, and it would
>>> literally take months for the first backup as upload speeds are slow.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I'm hoping my internet upload speeds improve over time, and cloud
>>> options also improve and are affordable. But for now, I keep things at home.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I did recently set up a RAID array (from scratch; I did not
>>> purchase an already configured RAID). I bought two 4 TB drives and set them
>>> up as a mirror RAID. It is a big improvement over the 9 (!) external hard
>>> drives that I had previously. It was just too many wires and too many plugs
>>> and not enough receptacles. The only downside, is that the RAID takes about
>>> 20-30 seconds to spin up if it is in a sleep mode. But other than that,
>>> it's great not to have to think about cloning a drive. It just works.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> K
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Does anyone backup their Mac Time Machine to the Cloud? What means
>>> to you use?
>>> >>>>> Thanks,
>>> >>>>> Linda
>>> >>>>> _____________________
>>> >>>>> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >>>>> P.O. Box 325
>>> >>>>> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >>>>> (520) 803-0538
>>> >>>>> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>>>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 12:00:58 -0700
>>> > From:    Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud
>>> >
>>> > I had a Mac with two hard drives inside at one time. I manually
>>> installed the second drive, there was space and wiring for it. That was a
>>> long time ago.
>>> > I like the external drives because I can take them to the bank box
>>> during fire season and stored off site.
>>> > I also like to unplug my external drives, until ready for backups,
>>> because we are rural, and especially during monsoon, thunderstorms are
>>> always knocking out electricity. Even surge protectors are no guarantee.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks to everyone, it's always good to keep current, or try to. ha.
>>> >
>>> > Linda
>>> > _____________________
>>> > Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> > P.O. Box 325
>>> > Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> > (520) 803-0538
>>> > www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 11:49 AM, Barbara Harmon wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> My other drive is inside the box but is a separate component - so is
>>> that considered external? Actually I hadn't originally been backing that
>>> one up until I called Carbonite an they said I could, so maybe it's not
>>> well-publicized or something... but I am very happy that I can. I'm on Mac.
>>> >>
>>> >> I also have 2 other external drives, but I just tend to not have them
>>> on automatic  back up (or even plugged in - too many wires etc) nearly
>>> frequently enough.... And I still have not fully utilized Dropbox. Thanks
>>> for the RAID info - had always wondered about that.
>>> >>
>>> >> Barbara Harmon
>>> >> www.barbaraharmon.com
>>> >> www.harmon-murals.blogspot.com
>>> >> 508*430*8308
>>> >> [log in to unmask]
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 1, 2014, at 2:09 PM, Karen Ackoff wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> You refer to a second drive... I assume you mean an external drive?
>>> Are you backing up from a PC? You can backup an external drive from a PC,
>>> but not a Mac. Or at least, this is what the Carbonite people told me.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I tend to keep all my data on external drives, with the exception of
>>> my most current work. This is so I can access it should the computer itself
>>> go down.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It isn't difficult to set up a RAID, although the initial formatting
>>> (zeroing out all data) takes time (5 days for each 4 TB drive). My user
>>> group stressed the importance of zeroing out all data. Then setting up the
>>> RAID can be done from DISK UTILITY, and is pretty quick and painless. Then
>>> it took me a few hours to copy my data to it from my old drives.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I do use DropBox and a similar service through my university. But I
>>> really don't use Apple's cloud for much.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> K
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 2:00 PM, Barbara Harmon <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> I have been on Carbonite for four years or so. Love it.
>>> >>>> Used it many times to save my butt or simply as convenience when
>>> traveling.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I had DSL when I originally uploaded files, but I only had (I
>>> think) 500GB. I am able to backup my second 500GB drive as well.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I want to hear more about the Apple Cloud too.... in the case I can
>>> ever get around to actually following through.
>>> >>>> ;-)
>>> >>>> Cheers,
>>> >>>> Barb
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Barbara Harmon
>>> >>>> www.barbaraharmon.com
>>> >>>> www.harmon-murals.blogspot.com
>>> >>>> 508*430*8308
>>> >>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:49 PM, Karen Ackoff wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> I don't backup to the cloud. For several reasons... 1) I don't have
>>> enough space on the cloud to back up my entire hard drive. 2) For security
>>> reasons; I keep tax records, receipts, etc. on my computer, and I don't
>>> want these on the cloud, regardless of security claims. I'm just not that
>>> trusting yet. I'm referring to the Apple Cloud, in regard to amount of
>>> storage space.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I did query carbonite... and that is an option, I suppose. You can
>>> backup your hard drive, but you cannot back up any external hard drives if
>>> you use a Mac.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Also, I only have access to DSL where I live, and it would
>>> literally take months for the first backup as upload speeds are slow.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I'm hoping my internet upload speeds improve over time, and cloud
>>> options also improve and are affordable. But for now, I keep things at home.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I did recently set up a RAID array (from scratch; I did not
>>> purchase an already configured RAID). I bought two 4 TB drives and set them
>>> up as a mirror RAID. It is a big improvement over the 9 (!) external hard
>>> drives that I had previously. It was just too many wires and too many plugs
>>> and not enough receptacles. The only downside, is that the RAID takes about
>>> 20-30 seconds to spin up if it is in a sleep mode. But other than that,
>>> it's great not to have to think about cloning a drive. It just works.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> K
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Does anyone backup their Mac Time Machine to the Cloud? What
>>> means to you use?
>>> >>>>>> Thanks,
>>> >>>>>> Linda
>>> >>>>>> _____________________
>>> >>>>>> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >>>>>> P.O. Box 325
>>> >>>>>> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >>>>>> (520) 803-0538
>>> >>>>>> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>>>>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>>>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ________________________________________________
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 15:42:42 -0400
>>> > From:    Bruce Bartrug <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: neutral grey
>>> >
>>> > Does anyone have a reference number for neutral grey color(s).  It's
>>> for a
>>> > website I'm putting together and I need a background for both color and
>>> > monochrome (b/w) images.  The color descriptor scheme used by the site
>>> > template uses six characters, e.g., 22a5dd for a medium blue I chose
>>> for a
>>> > navigation color.  More than one value neutral grey would be helpful as
>>> > well, if you have that info.  Any references or suggestions would be
>>> > welcome.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks in advance,
>>> > b
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Bruce Bartrug
>>> > Nobleboro, Maine, USA
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> > www.brucebartrug.com
>>> >
>>> > The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
>>> > because of those who look on and do nothing.  - Albert Einstein
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 12:57:14 -0700
>>> > From:    Stoney Compton <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: neutral grey
>>> >
>>> > The Navy uses this for all of its power point presentations for
>>> student pilots R: 173, G: 173, B: 173.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Stoney Compton, SFWA
>>> >
>>> > Author of Russian Amerika andAlaska Republik (Baen Books).
>>> > Treadwell, A Novel of Alaska Territory, Diplomatic Exchange, Level
>>> Six, Return to Kiana, andWhalesong, available in Kindle or Smashwords and
>>> trade paperback format from Pullo Pup Publishing through Amazon.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005LZWL3S
>>> > http://www.stoneycompton.com
>>> > http://www.facebook.com/Treadwell.novel
>>> >
>>> > It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere. -Voltaire,
>>> philosopher and writer (1694-1778)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Bruce Bartrug <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 2:42 PM
>>> > Subject: [SCIART] neutral grey
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Does anyone have a reference number for neutral grey color(s).  It's
>>> for a website I'm putting together and I need a background for both color
>>> and monochrome (b/w) images.  The color descriptor scheme used by the site
>>> template uses six characters, e.g., 22a5dd for a medium blue I chose for a
>>> navigation color.  More than one value neutral grey would be helpful as
>>> well, if you have that info.  Any references or suggestions would be
>>> welcome.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks in advance,
>>> >
>>> > b
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Bruce Bartrug
>>> > Nobleboro, Maine, USA
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> > http://www.brucebartrug.com/
>>> >
>>> > The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
>>> because of those who look on and do nothing.  - Albert Einstein
>>> > ________________________________________________
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:30:44 -0400
>>> > From:    Bruce Bartrug <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: neutral grey
>>> >
>>> > OMG!  The minor obnoxious gods of the web must have gotten tired of me
>>> > complaining about card catalogs.  Here's a site that lists hex rgb
>>> colors
>>> > in three different color designation schemes, which you will recognize
>>> from
>>> > the image of the color picker in Pshop.  Not surprisingly, white is
>>> 255 and
>>> > black 000.  Durn.  The second chart down one can hover over all the
>>> blacks
>>> > and find the hex rgb value for several shades of achromatic gray.
>>> >
>>> > Wonders never cease,
>>> > b
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 13:47:10 -0700
>>> > From:    "A.Simonnet" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: neutral grey
>>> >
>>> > Your question led me to a couple of places, which might or might not
>>> be useful to you? They show all web ref. shade of gray #. In any case I
>>> found it pretty interesting. The world of colors is an amazing one!
>>> > http://www.december.com/html/spec/color0.html
>>> >
>>> > http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_colors.asp
>>> >
>>> > Good luck,
>>> > Aurore
>>> >
>>> > Aurore Simonnet - Scientific Illustrator
>>> > NASA EPO - Sonoma State University
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> > http://epo.sonoma.edu
>>> > On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:14 PM, Bruce Bartrug <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Does anyone have a reference number for neutral grey color(s).  It's
>>> for a website I'm putting together and I need a background for both color
>>> and monochrome (b/w) images.  The color descriptor scheme used by the site
>>> template uses six characters, e.g., 22a5dd for a medium blue I chose for a
>>> navigation color.  More than one value neutral grey would be helpful as
>>> well, if you have that info.  Any references or suggestions would be
>>> welcome.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks in advance,
>>> >
>>> > b
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Bruce Bartrug
>>> > Nobleboro, Maine, USA
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> > www.brucebartrug.com
>>> >
>>> > The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
>>> because of those who look on and do nothing.  - Albert Einstein
>>> > ________________________________________________
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2014 08:03:40 +1000
>>> > From:    "Smith Will (Toowong)" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Wow! A time machine. Do you need a DeLorean for it to work. haha
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Will Smith
>>> >
>>> > Project Officer (Botanical Imaging)
>>> >
>>> > Queensland Herbarium
>>> >
>>> > Science Delivery
>>> >
>>> > Department of Science, IT, Innovation and the Arts (DSITIA)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Brisbane Botanic Gardens Mt Coot-tha
>>> >
>>> > Mt Coot-tha Road, Toowong, Queensland, Australia 4066
>>> >
>>> > Phone: (07) 38969508
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration-
>>> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda Feltner
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2014 3:40 AM
>>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>>> > Subject: [SCIART] BAcking up Time Machine to the Cloud
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Does anyone backup their Mac Time Machine to the Cloud? What means to
>>> > you use?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Linda
>>> >
>>> > _____________________
>>> >
>>> > Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> > P.O. Box 325
>>> > Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> > (520) 803-0538
>>> >
>>> > www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________________________
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> > instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
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>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 18:21:45 -0400
>>> > From:    OC Carlisle <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Re: question about Time Machine
>>> >
>>> > I have been using LaCie desk top drives for my Mac for many years,
>>> never a problem, phone customer support is excellent!  When I started
>>> school, bought a LaCie Rugged, use at school and with laptop - fabulous.
>>>  Definitely need to set up a RAID.  I use the Mac "Time Machine" with a
>>> LaCie 1TB; backs me up hourly.  At this time, this works for me.  Have two
>>> APC battery backups.
>>> >
>>> > Best,  "OC" Carlisle
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 2:15 PM, Linda Feltner <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> OH, these directions were much better than what I previously
>>> found!!!!! Exact step by step, and did exactly what I wanted it to.
>>> >>
>>> >> Gosh, I've been searching for over an hour, and didn't come up with
>>> these directions.
>>> >> Thank you very much!!!
>>> >> L.
>>> >> _____________________
>>> >> Linda M. Feltner Artist, LLC
>>> >> P.O. Box 325
>>> >> Hereford, AZ 85615
>>> >> (520) 803-0538
>>> >> www.lindafeltner.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 1, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Britt Griswold wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Check this out!  The disc utility may be able to do this...
>>> >>> http://macs.about.com/od/applications/ss/diskutilitysize_3.htm
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> >> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Date:    Tue, 1 Apr 2014 23:02:40 -0400
>>> > From:    Gail Guth <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > Subject: Boulder Registration is LIVE!
>>> >
>>> > *WELCOME TO BOULDER! *
>>> > REGISTRATION FOR THE 2014 GNSI ANNUAL CONFERENCE
>>> > <https://www.conf.gnsi.org/registration> IN BOULDER, CO IS NOW LIVE:
>>> >
>>> > Visit the Conference website <https://www.conf.gnsi.org> for detailed
>>> > information and updates
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Gail Guth
>>> > Guth Illustration & Design
>>> > 139 Lathrop Avenue
>>> > Battle Creek, MI  49014-5076
>>> > 269-963-1311
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> > www.guthillustration.com <http://www.guthillustration.com/>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
>>> > http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > End of SCIART-L Digest - 31 Mar 2014 to 1 Apr 2014 (#2014-72)
>>> > *************************************************************
>>>
>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>>> instructions at
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>>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>> instructions at
>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
>> instructions at
>> http://www.gnsi.org/resources/reviews/gnsi-sciart-l-listserv
>>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the
> instructions at
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>



-- 
Bruce Bartrug
Nobleboro, Maine, USA
[log in to unmask]
www.brucebartrug.com

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
because of those who look on and do nothing.  - Albert Einstein

Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the instructions at
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