I promise you, no other herald will think less of you if you "go crying to a herald that knows more than I do".  I doubt that a client looking for a name would think less of you for it, either.  Asking for help is part of learning and growing as a herald, just like in any field of endeavor.

As for, "I was merely commenting on the availability of such lists online", please do compile your own list of links, or lists of names.  You'll learn a lot by doing it, and have fun in the process.  But please look at the Medieval Names Archive, found at http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/
and the excellent article on doing name research without books, found at http://heraldry.sca.org/names/withoutbooks.html
and then decide for yourself if you still agree with your own comment.


On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Berry Canote <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Greetings Dorcas,

Oh no that is definitely not what I meant! :) Again I apologize for not explaining myself well.

I realize consulting tables have lists of names and many other resources, and that many heralds maintain such lists on their own. I think a consulting table may be the best way folks can get help with a name or a device. A consulting table certainly has more resources than I can provide with the shire's resources and those online. I think the veteran heralds like yourself and those of the past have come up with fantastic resources for folks to use. What I meant about the availability of lists is such things are not available online, or when they are folks do not know where they can find them.I know with the newcomers coming into Amlesmore some want an idea of a name before they go to a major event, just something to try on for size. I have no name lists of my own for them to look at, and my own expertise is limited to Old English, Middle English, and Old Norse. Were someone to ask about 14th century French names I would be lost and have to go crying to a herald that knows more than I do or has more resources than I do to give the client some ideas for names. I definitely did not mean name lists were a new idea though! I was merely commenting on the availability of such lists online.

In Service,

On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Dorcas Whitecap <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Wulfhere said:

"They could look at a list of names and pick one they like and then go to a herald with their choice(s)."

Or they could go to a consulting table at an event.  They'll find books there, with names.  They'll find heralds there, with expertise, rockin' it old school!

There are consulting tables at many events, especially the larger ones.  There was one at Krist Kinder, and at 12th Night.  Hmm, I didn't see one at Chieftains, or Crown Tournament.  I could probably do one at Melees & Mayhem, and possibly at Horse & Falcons.  There'll be a consulting table at Lilies War.  It will be open most, if not all, of the week.

Heralds have ALWAYS tried to provide lists of names for people to pick from.  I just now realized that what I'm responding negatively to is your suggestion that providing lists of names is somehow a new idea.  Maybe that's not what you meant.  Please tell me that's not what you meant.

I cannot read your blog post, since I'm at work, and it's blocked.  I'm only responding to your, and others', emails on this list.

and I finally figured out how to trim my replies!
still top-posting, though...

On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Berry Canote <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Greetings Dorcas!

I do not know if I am reading what you said right, but it sounds like you thought I meant that newcomers should have to do their own name research. That is not what I intended to say here, or what I meant in my blog. The idea was to let folks know how name research is done. And I do feel such resources as lists of names would be helpful for newcomers to see so they could choose a name that a herald could then research for them and document, Part of the problem I have been seeing is that folks do not know what choices they have as far as names go. They do not know for example Offa may be available for them if they are wanting a 9th century Anglo-Saxon persona. A simple list would be handy for that. They could look at a list of names and pick one they like and then go to a herald with their choice(s). I know many would rather not have to go looking for sources to document a name. It would be like expecting me to research weaving just to have a surcoat made. It is not going to happen as I have no interest there. Anyway, I did not want you thinking I meant newcomers should have to learn all the rules, how to document a name, learn how to submit a name and device, and such. I feel a herald should do that kind of work if the person does not have an interest in anything other than getting their name submitted and registered. I do apologize for poorly wording my statement, and my blog post, and giving the wrong impression. I am a writer and should know better how to explain what I mean. And I also apologize if I took what you said the wrong way.

In Service,
Wulfhere of Eofeshamme Amlesmore Herald

On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Dorcas Whitecap <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Wulfhere said:

" Here I am a fairly new herald and I did not even know of these resources despite having been trained and hanging out on various heraldric forums. It is very probable then that newcomers will never know of them unless some herald points them to them."

Two points:

1.  You are a new herald.  There is a lot you don't know -- yet.  You'll gain expertise over time, but there's no reason to expect you'll ever know all there is to know about heraldry.  And that's OKAY!  Ask any fighter, ask any artisan, they'll tell you there's always more to learn about their craft, whatever it is.  Heraldry is just the same.

2.  I have no problem whatsoever with the fact, which you pointed out, that "newcomers will never know of [these resources] unless some herald points them to them."  Of course I'll help somebody with finding a name.  That's my job.  That's my joy.  There's no reason why they should have to do all the research, and learn all the rules, if they just want to register a name and/or device.  If they want to become a herald, I'll help with that also.  But if that's not their passion, okay.  It's mine.

Dorcas Whitecap
herald since A.S. 26

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