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Thank you, Bruce.
Honestly, I just want to see a book on the proposed topic to be inspiring
and beautiful.  If they had charged artists a dime, I would have laughed
and turned the other direction.



barrett klein
Department of Biology
University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
1725 State Street, La Crosse, WI
www.pupating.org

On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Bruce Bartrug <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> This sounds exactly like a lot of "art books" that are supposedly
> distributed to galleries.  Some (many?) may be legitimate, but more than a
> few are (or were) quite the rip-off.  Artists actually paid the publisher
> -- over $200 in many cases -- to have their work in these books, although
> the payment did allow the participating artists one copy of the resulting
> publication.  Figure it out......$200 from 100 artists (at 2 pages per
> artist) is 20kilobucks.  It doesn't cost that much to print 100 copies and
> give them away to galleries.
>
> There's a art promotion site here in Maine that works on the same plan.
> One pays $250 and is allowed so many pieces of art work on the site.
> Supposedly, "accepted" artists (anyone with $250?) gets "promoted" by the
> owners/operators.  I'm not certain what type promotion that entails other
> than having one's work on their website, as I've never joined.  Also, one
> has to pay every year to be included.
>
> Yes, it's true that publishers and bookstores are going out of business
> (anyone here buy from Amazon? for shame), but this type publication has
> been around for quite a while.
>
> On the other side of the coin, I'm certain everyone will recognize the
> name Art Wolfe.  Art is a wildlife photographer that has published quite a
> string of superb photography books.  Thing is, Wolfe only breaks even on
> the books.  He produces them to keep his name at the top of the list at the
> photo stock agencies, which is where he makes his money.
>
> So compromise is always an issue in self-promotion.  Your friend may have
> produced an excellent piece of work that may help some artists.  I'm not
> certain how galleries select the artists they chose to promote, but I
> suspect most galleries turn away dozens of artists who are clamoring to
> have their work shown.  I could be wrong, but I can't imagine that
> galleries today have to go looking for high quality artists.  (As an aside,
> having been to many art galleries it sometimes seems to me they are NOT
> looking for high quality artists but rather artists that produce something
> the gallery thinks will sell in that community.  High quality artists
> become illustrators so they can stick to high quality art work.)
>
> If you are comfortable with this arrangement, go with it.  I suspect,
> however, that most of us here are looking for other ways to promote
> themselves than work for free "exposure."  We've all had that experience in
> one guise or another, and most who have realize it doesn't get them much.
>
> Best,
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 7:41 PM, barrett klein <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> I received a response from the author that contains no surprises.  The
>> book project is an unusual one, to be sure, so I understand the author's
>> predicament.  I will ask specifically about copyright protection of
>> artists' works and, if they are protected, I will go ahead and
>> participate.  No work is being commissioned for the book and my
>> introduction may be "adapted" from a previous catalog introduction I wrote
>> (with appropriate permissions).  I feel more comfortable with the
>> arrangement and am glad that I inquired, if for no other reason than to
>> plant a seed.
>> To protect the author's identity, I am copying portions of the author's
>> response here:
>>
>> "Yes, the book is for profit, and I expect the publisher makes some money
>> off it; otherwise he would not be in business. The final copy is classy -
>> something that you will be proud of and give to your parents and clients as
>> a gift...
>> I get a small royalty, which averages about $1 a book if it is hardcover.
>> Less if it is soft cover...
>> Your question is unique. This is the first time in all the art books I
>> have done that artists expect to be compensated for their work. Most of
>> them look at this as their chance to get free pr, to meet potential clients
>> and gallery owners, to share their work with the world.  Of course, they
>> have to show it off.  Already one gallery is interested in this
>> undertaking... The publisher offers a substantial  discount to participants.
>> I think you have to look at these coffee table books as promotional
>> pieces... [specifics of what came out of a previous publication].
>> Certainly, it would be nice to compensate those who write the
>> Intro/Foreword, but there is no money to do it.  Those writers get their
>> name on the cover, which means that every time anyone looks up [book title]
>> their name will pop up.
>> That's the deal, and there's little maneuvering room here.
>> Publishers/bookstores have been going out of business at a great rate. The
>> good old days are gone..."
>>
>>
>>
>> barrett klein
>> Department of Biology
>> University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
>> 1725 State Street, La Crosse, WI
>> www.pupating.org
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 5:15 PM, OC Carlisle <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Barrett,
>>>
>>> I echo Kathy G! Best wishes for resolving this very important issue.
>>>
>>> Don’t forget the note from Gail Guth about the Orphan Works issue.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> OC Carlisle
>>>
>>> On Jul 19, 2015, at 5:08 PM, barrett klein <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you, Kathy.  I will let you know what kind of response I receive.
>>>
>>> barrett klein
>>> Department of Biology
>>> University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
>>> 1725 State Street, La Crosse, WI
>>> www.pupating.org
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Kathleen Garness <
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that's beautifully phrased!
>>>>
>>>> Kathy G
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 19, 2015, at 2:35 PM, barrett klein wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've received very interesting and not-unexpected feedback from this
>>>> listserve.  Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> I crafted this email message, including mention of GNSI, and sent it to
>>>> the author who invited me.  Let's see how the author responds...
>>>>
>>>> Dear ____,
>>>>
>>>> I've been receiving messages full of questions from the artists I
>>>> recommended you contact.  Colleagues of mine are concerned and I can
>>>> appreciate these concerns, so I would like to share them with you so that I
>>>> might properly respond.  Artists are often asked to share their work for
>>>> "exposure," and are not reimbursed for products that make others money.
>>>> For my sake and the sake of those coming to me for information, could you
>>>> respond to the following?
>>>>
>>>> 1) Is this book for profit and who attains financial rewards from sales
>>>> of the book?
>>>> 2) Why is the author of the introduction not paid?
>>>> 3) Why are contributing artists not paid?
>>>>
>>>> My colleagues share a concern with the Guild for Natural Science
>>>> Illustrators and others that artists should receive payment for their
>>>> contributions, taking the form of a one-time payment, royalties from sales,
>>>> and/or copies of the book.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to see this book become the best it can be, but I also do
>>>> not wish to undermine my colleague's profession and integrity in the
>>>> process.  Please let me know your thoughts on the matter and whether or not
>>>> an arrangement that respects artists' contributions can be instituted
>>>> here.  Thank you for your consideration.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> barrett
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Bartrug
> Nobleboro, Maine, USA
> [log in to unmask]
> www.brucebartrug.com
>
> •The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
> because of those who look on and do nothing.  - Albert Einstein
> •In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the
> silence of our friends. -Martin Luther King
>
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