Yes, Britt, I understand the consideration. But.. the biggest problem with the "it's a free world" argument is that you will not see this in other occupations than with artists. If bakeries, for example, were offered such an arrangement the silence would be devastating. And another thing is that people do not value things that are given away for free. 

And volunteering for the GNSI is very much different because we are part of it. 

The GNSI hosting a page as you suggested would be a great idea I think. I would surely also link to it.


Mieke Roth
Communicates (complex) scientific subjects 
in a beautiful, accessible and visible way
Mieke Roth, Msc.
Breehorn 46
8223 CN Lelystad
The Netherlands  
+31 (0)63 72 80 899

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration- [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Namens Britt Griswold
Verzonden: vrijdag 30 oktober 2015 13:57
Aan: [log in to unmask]
Onderwerp: Re: [SCIART] Flora and Fauna Illustrata project - Minnesota Landscape Arboetum

It is a issue for sure.  On the one hand you don't want to discourage an organization's appreciation of the art (which they are showing by starting a project like this). And as long as everyone is clear that you are essentially doing volunteer/charity work for that organization, it is hard to argue with their selection of that process. But how much energy and time should the GNSI put toward spreading this word is the issue.  The GNSI itself is a volunteer/charity organization. Is part of our mission to let members know about other volunteer/charity opportunities where they can use their skills?

On the one hand I agree with the position that these sorts of project are not helping artists make a living, and the GNSI is partly about helping people and organizations understand what it takes to make science art.  On the other hand if we just ignore these types of projects and people, no education takes place. Plus it it is a free world, so if someone goes in with their eyes open and educated, they can make their own choices.

I would not mind seeing the GNSI hosting a page that lays out the case for compensation as the norm in artist/organization/project relationships. As well as what you are really doing when giving it away for free.

Make sure you can square that with helping the GNSI (also a non-profit that really has little budget...and lots of people volunteering their talents).  At least we don't try to claim all rights to people's art (sheesh!)


On 10/30/15 8:22 AM, Mieke Roth wrote:
> Yes, the rights transfer is what ticked me off also.
> But as an organization I think you have to be aware how “informing” is 
> received. If given by an organization such as the GNSI it can easily 
> give information an air of legitimacy, even when the organization 
> doesn’t see it that way. And I can’t  imagine that the GNSI would want 
> to place a disclaimer on every piece of information it spreads. But even if you do that, such information is still easily perceived as a silent and unwitting endorsement.
> Mieke
> *Mieke Roth*
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [SCIART] Flora and Fauna Illustrata project - 
> Minnesota Landscape Arboetum
> It’s not unlike, I think, what is experienced by people in the 
> entertainment business as performers (not other aspects of that 
> business) in that the exploiters know, or assume, we are all in it out 
> of love for the actual act of doing, AND dependent on recognition, AND that there are more of us than there are paying jobs making it a buyer’s market (or non-buyer’s, all too often).  Entertainment
> performers, too, are constantly asked for freebies.   I do try to be as generous as I can be with
> everything I have, but I also have to earn a living.   What really, really, irritated me about this
> deal was that the artist is expected to relinquish commercial rights to the art that is donated.
> That is really beyond belief.
> I didn’t see this as “promoting”.  I agree that it is “informing” and 
> don’t have a problem with that.  I have a problem with the actual event, itself, not with the information that it exists.
> Cheers,
> Barry

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