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Thanks Britt. Mine is a T6. Will check out that link. Cheers, Patricia Savage psavageart.com 919-438-6766 On 5/6/20 2:36 PM, Griswold, Britt (GSFC-279.0)[LUSA Associates] wrote: > > You can do live streaming with a more recent Rebel: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.lightscameralive.com_blog_how-2Dto-2Duse-2Da-2Ddslr-2Dcamera-2Dto-2Dmake-2Dyour-2Dlive-2Dvideo-2Dmagical&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=7awxyZ10R1hetx5kIPh3ZgycFoTZmyS6YsvUNLDhGNw&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.lightscameralive.com_blog_how-2Dto-2Duse-2Da-2Ddslr-2Dcamera-2Dto-2Dmake-2Dyour-2Dlive-2Dvideo-2Dmagical&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=DtWqEYSuWjGndnHxMcx_B37K2tKMqouYjOtQbytjqq0&s=38Qcp6tyIHGNfUPRgxhKm2BoUHG85PImxutM18asOJw&e=> > > But any of the rebels can record a video that you can put on your > computer to play later during your live stream. Older Rebels (t3?) > only record 1280 x 720. Newer ones are full HD2. > > Britt > > *From: *SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration- > <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Patricia Savage > <[log in to unmask]> > *Reply-To: *SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration- > <[log in to unmask]> > *Date: *Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 2:24 PM > *To: *"[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> > *Subject: *Re: [SCIART] [EXTERNAL] [SCIART] Equipment for online > teaching with Zoom > > Have any of you all used a DSLR for taking videos? Since I can take > video with my Canon Rebel, it just seems like a no brainer to try that > out first. Pros? Cons? > > Cheers, > Patricia Savage > > psavageart.com > 919-438-6766 > > On 5/6/20 1:23 PM, Lore Ruttan wrote: > > I have the IPEVO V4k. Britt and I are going to check it out > tomorrow afternoon on Zoom if anyone else wants to join. > > On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 1:04 PM Dorie Petrochko > <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Is it San Elmo doc camera? > > On Wed, May 6, 2020, 12:29 PM Lore Ruttan <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Btw, if anyone wants to see what the doc camera image > looks like, feel free to post me privately and we can set > up a zoom. > > Lore > > On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 12:27 PM gretchen halpert > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Kathy, > > I'll try it with my camcorder and with my husband's > iPhone, which is newer than mine, see what I find and > report back. I will use the same set-up I do for > filming, which is setting the camera on a boom > attached to my tripod. This allows overhead > filming/viewing and no movement vibrations. I control > my camcorder with my iPad or iPhone, via Bluetooth, > for zooming in and out without having to touch the > camera, so there is no shake. Good lighting is crucial. > > As more artists are teaching online, options for > products and process for doing it /well /and > affordably will explode/./ > > Sincerely, > > Gretchen > > Gretchen Halpert > Illustrator/educator > > Scientific Illustration Distance Program > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gretchenhalpert-2Ddistanceprogram.com&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=13H5B1G2v-0dA63M3wwZhLOAjswxPJxqdQWF6fLXUCo&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gretchenhalpert-2Ddistanceprogram.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=PJYv0CKl4E1h54KZeSbHf6-RBi8M_r7YPuVbGxl9Sc8&s=kmeZKZgGOdlRngSXX1eu_9DWupVdP91nuKzGyJ4Vx2E&e=> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gretchenhalpert.com&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=DdMVw7J5y294BMmm8zSPNPwrmPvtMBasPaEPAwtmCik&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gretchenhalpert.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=PJYv0CKl4E1h54KZeSbHf6-RBi8M_r7YPuVbGxl9Sc8&s=9LqwJaok7h6sBL7gqqqRkay1K6eyXATyLvA6ddTSfS0&e=> > > > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 7:22 PM Kathleen McKeehen > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Gretchen, > > That's the issue I've worried about too, and what > kept me going back and forth between the various > options and opinions on them. But I've seen live > demos using a good smart phone, and the clarity > and sharpness was definitely sufficient. (The B&H > guys said that there is a quality difference in > various smart phones, and the good ones have > excellent lenses in them that are up to the > task.) The instructor/friend was new to the > online format, and struggled with it initially, > but once she got good lighting and attached the > phone to a tripod, not a clamp attached to the > table she was working on (the slightest jiggle as > she did the demo made it difficult to see clearly) > the closeups allow students to see the live demo > better than in the regular classroom. If the smart > phone was an option for me, I'd probably go with > one of those. I've also worked with a "Ladybug" > device in our botanical group's workshops, and > that also allows for good viewing of the demo; I'm > still investigating whether that device can be > linked up to Zoom, which is the format I'll be > using at Gage. If the smart phone was an option > for me, I'd probably go with it, but it isn't. I'm > also hoping to do filmed tutorials, but really > hoping to make the live demos work, too--will see > when devices arrive this summer! > > Kathy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From: *"gretchen halpert" > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > *To: *"SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural > Science Illustration" <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:38:43 PM > *Subject: *Re: [SCIART] [EXTERNAL] [SCIART] > Equipment for online teaching with Zoom > > Marj, > > Are you finding your webcam is sharp enough for > demonstrations like Kathy wants to do? My > experience when I started teaching online was that > live demonstrations were not sharp enough, and > that the resolution varied according to students' > equipment. I resolved this by making demonstration > tutorials with a good quality video camera. > Equipment has improved since I starting teaching > online in 2014, but even with my Logitech camera, > which I use instead of my build-in desktop camera, > and the Sony camcorder I made videos with, > students may not see live demonstrations sharply > with their laptops. > > I'd love to be able to show live demonstrations as > clearly as a recorded tutorial. > > Best, > > Gretchen > > Gretchen Halpert > Illustrator/educator > > Scientific Illustration Distance Program > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gretchenhalpert-2Ddistanceprogram.com&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=13H5B1G2v-0dA63M3wwZhLOAjswxPJxqdQWF6fLXUCo&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gretchenhalpert-2Ddistanceprogram.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=b1dEAVrbXXw2oGePVC_XTkzWqPqUUCK4a6qslDfFvkE&s=uzxcsK42lIoSg9QoiVFBWII1vpXnLIuAdS13GPwm9kY&e=> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gretchenhalpert.com&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=DdMVw7J5y294BMmm8zSPNPwrmPvtMBasPaEPAwtmCik&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gretchenhalpert.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=b1dEAVrbXXw2oGePVC_XTkzWqPqUUCK4a6qslDfFvkE&s=afb-qIRedHZV-5eaakUFODBK6a-Ou0avrZ1B6ax0sZY&e=> > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:24 AM Marjorie Leggitt > <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > wrote: > > Hi Karen. > > In Zoom, to access the camera and items on > your desktop use the ”share“ button on the > lower tool bar. This opens 2 levels of sharing > capabilities. Desktop items are available > through the normal share function and live > stream camera is accessed through the advance > share function. > > Marj > > Leggitt Design > > 303.394.0566 > > On May 3, 2020, at 10:31 PM, Karen Ackoff > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > wrote: > > That’s great to know, Marj. Ecocam > definitely sounds like it’s worth checking > out. I assume you toggle cameras under the > little camera icon at the bottom-left of > the Zoom window? > > K > > On May 3, 2020, at 10:23 PM, Marjorie > Leggitt <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Hi all. > > The last few weeks I’ve been teaching > online using Zoom. > > Yes you can toggle between the > computer camera on your face and > another camera on your work. > > I’m using the free version of Ecocam > to turn my iPhone camera into a > webcam. (It’s fine for what I’m doing > but the “pay-for” version has focusing > capabilities, etc.) I toggle back and > forth between the camera showing me > taking, the webcam showing me working, > and jpgs of my students work in PS > which I critique and on which I do > live “mark ups” using my Wacom tablet. > It’s quite a versatile space! > > Marj > > Leggitt Design > > 303.394.0566 > > On May 3, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Karen > Ackoff > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > wrote: > > I’m interested in this as well… > I’m wondering, can you switch > between cameras on the fly within > Zoom? So you would have one camera > (the computer’s built-in camera) > focused on your face, and then > switch to a camera focused on your > work table. > > I’ve been coming at this from the > audio end… as I’ve taken my > classical guitar lessons online. > And I’ve learned something that > may help with Zoom broadcasts in > general… Once Zoom is open, go to > Zoom preferences and click on the > Advanced button. Under Audio, turn > off (disable) suppression (there > are two instances). This > eliminates latency. So you hear > things as they occur, not a second > or two later. For music, this is > an issue. Also disabling > suppression means that Zoom does > not try to decide who is talking > over who, muting one of them. So > two people can talk, or in my > case, two people can play guitar > at the same time and both guitars > are heard. > > I’ve decided, after a bit of > research, that $350 of equipment > does not improve the audio enough > to make it worth it. Though I can > say a modest cardioid condenser > mic helps a lot, eliminating > background noise (except maybe not > screaming cockatoos), depending on > the gain setting. I use a Blue > Yeti microphone that my guitar > teacher calls R2D2 (it’s a bit big). > > Thanks, Britt. I’ll be watching > the links you provided with great > interest. > > Karen > > On May 3, 2020, at 4:09 PM, > Griswold, Britt > (GSFC-279.0)[LUSA Associates] > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > wrote: > > Some of the issues to think > about for webcams in a > demonstration video: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D5Uvraq8G0Qw&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=bXT_1MmGWCn2oGjrY04W_ABu9Uk5grmoHphf8bjVoCk&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D5Uvraq8G0Qw&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=4B9MN8GNUYPwZgMudcvL6u8UjRWpXskJg4RlqL2zcnk&s=ar8oE6NS4p-UvAeP2rYt-L9I0N3hqgoa_ItHapvxqVc&e=> > > Very interesting product here > if you want higher end webcam > result: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DsKmY-2DtWwXPk&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=EqDd_6PlJgiVZ0mhI5hSdfYUSJCx8qYnQ75-CagyphA&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DsKmY-2DtWwXPk&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=4B9MN8GNUYPwZgMudcvL6u8UjRWpXskJg4RlqL2zcnk&s=70MKT8BDTXkdRE2thrrhOhXDDeFEa47YtXFqWvKZnAk&e=> > > Britt > > *From: *SciArt-L Discussion > List-for Natural Science > Illustration- > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > on behalf of Kathleen McKeehen > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > *Reply-To: *SciArt-L > Discussion List-for Natural > Science Illustration- > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > *Date: *Sunday, May 3, 2020 at > 1:47 PM > *To: > *"[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>" > <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] [SCIART] > Equipment for online teaching > with Zoom > > Like many other GNSI members, > my teaching gig has moved to > online instruction, and the > school hopes to continue > offering this option even > if/when things return to > "normal." So it's a format for > teaching I'd like to work > with. From the online classes > I've observed, instructors > utilize two cameras--the one > on their monitor, as they > speak to their students face > on, or perhaps hold something > up for viewing, and another of > some sort that can show the > demonstration of techniques, > which is usually rigged with > tripod or other device to > shoot from above. As I'm > teaching botanical painting > and drawing, I need something > that will show closeups with > sharp detail--my "big" brush > is a #3, and I am often using > a #2 WN mini. So it's > essential that whatever is > being used here can zoom in > closely and clearly, and feed > into the Zoom program easily. > > According to my research so > far, many people use a smart > phone for this "camera". For > various reasons that's not a > good option for me. Others > seem to use web cams or > cameras, and reports seem to > contradict one another on the > efficacy of these. Web cams > appear to work nicely for > interfacing with Zoom, though > it seems like there's some > issue with whether one is > using a Mac or a PC as to how > well various brands work. Also > I can't seem to get a > consensus on which models > would be up to the task of > showing detailed work crisply > and clearly enough. Others > like to use cameras; again, no > consensus on which types or > models would work best for > this task. > > The other issue is > availability--it looks like > most of the webcam options at > least wouldn't arrive until > mid-summer; since I won't be > teaching until fall quarter, > this would still work for me, > but it does make it a little > dicier, as I may not have the > option of buying, trying, and > returning a product that > doesn't work well for my > purposes with sufficient time > to try another. So I'd like to > be as sure as possible of what > I'm ordering now. Any specific > recommendations? > > Thanks! > > Kathy McKeehen > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to > the Sciart-L listserv? Follow > the instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=ApwzowJNAKKw3xye91w7BE1XMRKi2LN9kiMk5Csz9Zk&r=WOFIP3PoBMB6GxFoK60qXmWGqbt80xGa-jiMH3cPh5dYf7eivXomNNjzGJu2q1zS&m=eYEUViUG7_Bq5cglKBHoaKwTmG-M9ziJQZ2Q7vZ8uIY&s=erZl0Y9NbdDb13U4G7gOo5UltXLeWv9CyrYxAiql7S0&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson > at [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to > the Sciart-L listserv? Follow > the instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=TVjM_maggxnd1_ItCiN2u68YLEheIBwwLt6e-T5N914&s=m4bBVKEizOY-yG9K7rqafyaoP2UVjpsVUObibuqZ7a0&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson > at [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the > Sciart-L listserv? Follow the > instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=wr_akxqrvrUC48HNZcNNfPIxtcZ15P2JJSXuy720mn4&s=dCzL55cLIYUgOkRLMpkIgq1S0GdaZ5zjFeighoDSA38&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at > [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the > Sciart-L listserv? Follow the > instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=BOp5UHZ4z5eYF06112EqdazD2U6lcFs5Be6yZCI0RhA&s=qq3Gt-Dgu3g4jYDpb_e6sq6YlTDxfI7Wpk92D2QsM8Y&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at > [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L > listserv? Follow the instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=rt1RUUaoZepHMw5a-usb3zCy4UzE9sVbM7ixz--f58w&s=oAU6MCloESmbU3R4JKSEGukdz-SbkvHXhXEgvGoynBk&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L > listserv? Follow the instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=b1dEAVrbXXw2oGePVC_XTkzWqPqUUCK4a6qslDfFvkE&s=7H2oEFrmiXJ0ZO4TqtKxtWPqZox8Fh3UwqZ26oYg5H8&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L > listserv? Follow the instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=t5qnPzs7xsxKvXLcqdlAlqVq3zMhKMvb-HAejkw7LNQ&s=RsEcS-j5MsuyTpYiaTCk943SnnTwGHXcSFfcgK-3cSY&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L > listserv? Follow the instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=PJYv0CKl4E1h54KZeSbHf6-RBi8M_r7YPuVbGxl9Sc8&s=aExgHkwFwRmrQJIqloDR1z3DaD8hsojIdt2y4rSt1Wk&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? > Follow the instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=RBMzGDc8GtZHZlUuldNDDiGIFg5toZHwRFys28T7LQI&s=DfUnjgui3VD2Fba90Wg0aSCDrLPWyFYraRcYi7LjSvQ&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > > -- > > /Lore Ruttan, /Ph.D. > > Lore Ruttan Illustration > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.loreruttanillustration.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=RBMzGDc8GtZHZlUuldNDDiGIFg5toZHwRFys28T7LQI&s=2Ybugx5WeS8hZJq8Z27NVB8m3mvnIBh99bVWe8-IHKk&e=> > > Visit my Etsy shop at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.etsy.com_shop_Paperlore&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=yIGLKfsy72B8W20-PBq64D1LsuLCMPCH9bEnIii33n4&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.etsy.com_shop_Paperlore&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=RBMzGDc8GtZHZlUuldNDDiGIFg5toZHwRFys28T7LQI&s=msZ5ntO1zfAso_pqO9qgQNlVbhyEs_iy8vrEm66rrDo&e=> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? > Follow the instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=Zs0HtPV6ipPpURMOm5ibsZrrVZYBGs0brRM5_Gx1XBA&s=G1vnkdnOyoX-1OTl3g_f3441rgR7cKZnFkZ0Mk_-zL0&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow > the instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=8JBsFZipiQW2VHI3xuAoGLOT55mjOg6Svv15A36VcDQ&s=Ve9Lexjnio0ZvjkneRBUUg5zqmqyaI3cNN_PcrGEhHk&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > > -- > > /Lore Ruttan, /Ph.D. > > Lore Ruttan Illustration > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.loreruttanillustration.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=8JBsFZipiQW2VHI3xuAoGLOT55mjOg6Svv15A36VcDQ&s=gP8zAX2jtLUU_wz9r9IJbnvYJm6fMf9pMOmYg4xyS28&e=> > > Visit my Etsy shop at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.etsy.com_shop_Paperlore&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=yIGLKfsy72B8W20-PBq64D1LsuLCMPCH9bEnIii33n4&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.etsy.com_shop_Paperlore&d=DwMFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=8JBsFZipiQW2VHI3xuAoGLOT55mjOg6Svv15A36VcDQ&s=ByqUy_O0XID64scX7fOcoVt-DDkz6E19gUY6FBjdVi4&e=> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the > instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=bRM0TvJAdt2B0OF-c728yumIm9fVuCEe3FKpH_T4qJA&s=9x1qlGeQ-TftFc6X7eXw31mXB7p-KppAHm_FmqD2Wq8&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the > instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=rCfULltbLiuBIbBxtIQ-5lO9EtRlglmStXGvMwMJS0Y&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwMFaQ&c=ApwzowJNAKKw3xye91w7BE1XMRKi2LN9kiMk5Csz9Zk&r=WOFIP3PoBMB6GxFoK60qXmWGqbt80xGa-jiMH3cPh5dYf7eivXomNNjzGJu2q1zS&m=EtwSu6RTf-KSIxJ2EE3sh_DhZbZEeaLm45grnbNSBpI&s=udZ0qfYIsLinauOUQhyhj8YcK0oA7UGOKYZHWYyqOCk&e=>List > name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] > > ________________________________________________ > > Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the > instructions at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listservList&d=DwIDaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=5zaEVK5RNDwbS9aTb12R8QL2WLb6kTIaeJs2rMoJzy4&s=R4YWsxNOy4mKjnR0Vc48_IICebgSpG_44S4JlnySDhY&e= name is Sciart-L > Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] > Instructions to subscribe or leave the list are at https://www.gnsi.org/listserv List name is Sciart-L Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask]