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I have been experimenting using an iPhone 6s and EpocCam as a second camera with Zoom. The lag is so bad that it’s unusable - EpocCam notes a lag of 1/2-second. I am experiencing a lag of 5-10 minutes. The iPhone is wired directly to a laptop, which is on WiFi. My guess is that my internet is so slow (DSL) that this is the problem. Difficult for me to test.

This would work fine for recording something to play later, as I don’t have lag when it’s only connected via Zoom. But as soon as there is another meeting participant, it begins to lag and the lag time increases the longer I am connected.

This is when using the iPhone as a 2nd camera. It works fine with Zoom as the primary camera, without any notable lag. 

I will be upgrading to Comcast but have no idea when exactly as they aren’t keeping their promises spelled out in my contract.

I have experimented with using QuickTime on the LapTop to see what is on the iPhone… and it works quite well, but only in vertical orientation, and I need it in landscape mode.

As Britt noted, it can take a time or two to connect with EpocCam. But when it is connected the quality is very good. I’m using a licensed version of Zoom, if that makes any difference.

I wish I had a webcam to test… and will probably eventually break down and order one. I can use it for something, I’m sure.

K

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:11 PM, Griswold, Britt (GSFC-279.0)[LUSA Associates] <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> If you want to use an iPhone as a live feed into something like Skype, I think you need a piece of software to make that connection. There are several out there about $10-25. I purchased the EpocCam software. I am not really satisfied with it, as it seems to still have bugs and would not consistently connect when I would expect it to.
>  
> If anyone had done it with native Mac software let me know.
>  
> Britt
>  
> From: SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration- <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Dorie Petrochko <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Reply-To: SciArt-L Discussion List-for Natural Science Illustration- <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Date: Friday, December 4, 2020 at 8:32 AM
> To: "[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [SCIART] webcam advice please
>  
> I ordered the IPEVO doc camera and was not happy with the resolution and lag time. I now use my IPhone for a document camera and it works better
>  
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 3:45 PM Jane Neroni <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> Hi Marlene,
>> I ordered the IPEVO and although they said there would be a six week wait I received it in three weeks.  Hope that also works for you.
>> Best,
>> Jane
>>> On 12/03/2020 2:11 PM Marlene Donnelly <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>   
>>>   
>>> Thanks so much, Marj!  I am currently using an Epson document camera, but it's anything but high definition-- I didn't know that was possible.  This sounds great.
>>>   
>>> Much appreciated, 
>>> Marlene 
>>>  
>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:54 PM Marjorie Leggitt < [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: 
>>>> Hi Marlene. 
>>>>   
>>>> I have had GREAT success using the plug and play IPEVO V4K. This is the web camera Loe Ruttan recommended and demoed early in the COVID months. It’s an amazing little tool and incredibly easy to use. Great relolution, etc 
>>>>   
>>>> I paid $99 from  Ipevo.com <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttp-2D3A-5F-5FIpevo.com-2526d-253DDwMFaQ-2526c-253DCu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX-5Frg6kWhlkLF8Eft-2Dwwo-2526r-253DAGYZ7-2DAeerjxzYnIwL-2DlBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg-2526m-253DXF8IZVcRYbtxJ1J-5FpekbPCkoMP5ccK8D9W1d1Ib6wAY-2526s-253D5sttyMkWwZddVR2DepsoOvlBX4cI-2DcXfoRpqQLcLPJE-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Ctheophilus.b.griswold-2540nasa.gov-257Ca661508eea6244fe55de08d898590849-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637426855443439504-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26sdata-3DXPq63BwGJO4b8XZVrnP23Wv32uQm2IE4-252BsGUtQ-252BIY-252F0-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=H74I9DGmDk2_-Y5NxqeDRL3M_VGh1xjfrGLa354WkmA&s=McvqGQ5JQDGky2nESmRoL32ypw6ZXe6shzZtZ1PZwX8&e=>. Do not order from Amazon as some sellers are trying to sell the Lis doc camera for several hundred dollars!! 
>>>> 
>>>> Marj 
>>>> Leggitt Design 
>>>> 303.394.0566 
>>>> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>>   
>>>> Follow me on Instagram |  @mcleggitt <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fwww.instagram.com-5Fmcleggitt-5F-2526d-253DDwMFaQ-2526c-253DCu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX-5Frg6kWhlkLF8Eft-2Dwwo-2526r-253DAGYZ7-2DAeerjxzYnIwL-2DlBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg-2526m-253DXF8IZVcRYbtxJ1J-5FpekbPCkoMP5ccK8D9W1d1Ib6wAY-2526s-253DT9KmAkYu-2DNcLLxUDpcZTL0lsdh9jbqAFu-2D7qRYuK9H4-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Ctheophilus.b.griswold-2540nasa.gov-257Ca661508eea6244fe55de08d898590849-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637426855443449491-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26sdata-3DCmTg9zDAuL-252FZ8rV6AAHiVwNvirbshlsmn8Jdzf6exJk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=H74I9DGmDk2_-Y5NxqeDRL3M_VGh1xjfrGLa354WkmA&s=_tLquwCNlbZ_uoAFqocS63vTZxrh9DzjcDxfkc-td6M&e=> 
>>>> 
>>>> Website | science-art.com/leggitt <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttp-2D3A-5F-5Fscience-2D2Dart.com-5Fleggitt-2526d-253DDwMFaQ-2526c-253DCu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX-5Frg6kWhlkLF8Eft-2Dwwo-2526r-253DAGYZ7-2DAeerjxzYnIwL-2DlBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg-2526m-253DXF8IZVcRYbtxJ1J-5FpekbPCkoMP5ccK8D9W1d1Ib6wAY-2526s-253Du2Zt9p6NaQFlBVd78EYDQMIQ1XMe0ccEi837kmiVcMM-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Ctheophilus.b.griswold-2540nasa.gov-257Ca661508eea6244fe55de08d898590849-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637426855443449491-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26sdata-3DSoU6uy90VFA9TlDRb61-252BCbjMclGV0eHY-252F8PW3MBFVpo-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=H74I9DGmDk2_-Y5NxqeDRL3M_VGh1xjfrGLa354WkmA&s=gvPwNQbvgf34HjfJLlA51yS0rUSjU4BPxLZhDlMCKRA&e=> 
>>>> LinkedIn |  MarjorieLeggitt <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fwww.linkedin.com-5Fin-5Fmarjorieleggitt-5F-2526d-253DDwMFaQ-2526c-253DCu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX-5Frg6kWhlkLF8Eft-2Dwwo-2526r-253DAGYZ7-2DAeerjxzYnIwL-2DlBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg-2526m-253DXF8IZVcRYbtxJ1J-5FpekbPCkoMP5ccK8D9W1d1Ib6wAY-2526s-253Dm5R-5FrQh9K5PlRubyTQ1gxCb76l-5FL-5FOj-5FhSrTy7g1kJc-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Ctheophilus.b.griswold-2540nasa.gov-257Ca661508eea6244fe55de08d898590849-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637426855443459417-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26sdata-3Decm1Mglp6SYhgpds8IH3M4QLBgrURarSJwV7VWZAAtU-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=H74I9DGmDk2_-Y5NxqeDRL3M_VGh1xjfrGLa354WkmA&s=mUmgLmtDusN5Nzx-ecmVbuLx2SGQO2QMTLeRda9rNUA&e=> 
>>>> Instructor | School of Botanical Art & Illustration, Denver Botanic Gardens 
>>>> Instructor |  Craftsy <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fwww.craftsy.com-5Fclass-5Fperspective-2D2Dtechniques-2D2Dfor-2D2Dbetter-2D2Ddrawing-5F-2526d-253DDwMFaQ-2526c-253DCu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX-5Frg6kWhlkLF8Eft-2Dwwo-2526r-253DAGYZ7-2DAeerjxzYnIwL-2DlBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg-2526m-253DXF8IZVcRYbtxJ1J-5FpekbPCkoMP5ccK8D9W1d1Ib6wAY-2526s-253DeqD8dUKpew-2DGbj7upnW3q1TT9UGqLm82P3LFInCkOD8-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Ctheophilus.b.griswold-2540nasa.gov-257Ca661508eea6244fe55de08d898590849-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637426855443459417-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26sdata-3DiT3JbajZPqwPnAZ7yhedB77cL8BzW-252FUDDCNpUe0-252BSTM-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=H74I9DGmDk2_-Y5NxqeDRL3M_VGh1xjfrGLa354WkmA&s=saFuyxSh4qi8jwdHAm8iFG_JNxHddwl8VFoQQ8v-cio&e=> 
>>>> Illustrator |  Flora of North America <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttp-2D3A-5F-5Fbeta.floranorthamerica.org-5Fw-5Findex.php-2D3Ftitle-2D3DSpecial-2D3ASearch-2D26search-2D3Dmarjorie-2D2Bc-2D2Bleggitt-2D26fulltext-2D3D1-2D26profile-2D3Ddefault-2526d-253DDwMFaQ-2526c-253DCu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX-5Frg6kWhlkLF8Eft-2Dwwo-2526r-253DAGYZ7-2DAeerjxzYnIwL-2DlBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg-2526m-253DXF8IZVcRYbtxJ1J-5FpekbPCkoMP5ccK8D9W1d1Ib6wAY-2526s-253DNq1u-2DhUyL6HnT-5FZmSsp9-2Db3GInRrRL8rAwHbj5CurIE-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Ctheophilus.b.griswold-2540nasa.gov-257Ca661508eea6244fe55de08d898590849-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637426855443469373-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26sdata-3D4777reJmCIKS4e-252FJq8SQAZDNKjboYdJunO264lIKF7I-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=H74I9DGmDk2_-Y5NxqeDRL3M_VGh1xjfrGLa354WkmA&s=zMjj0zJaosyPF_3JIGPMWG81ahqWgL9XfoNbeiBhXTg&e=>
>>>> 
>>>>  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttp-2D3A-5F-5Fbeta.floranorthamerica.org-5Fw-5Findex.php-2D3Ftitle-2D3DSpecial-2D3ASearch-2D26search-2D3Dmarjorie-2D2Bc-2D2Bleggitt-2D26fulltext-2D3D1-2D26profile-2D3Ddefault-2526d-253DDwMFaQ-2526c-253DCu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX-5Frg6kWhlkLF8Eft-2Dwwo-2526r-253DAGYZ7-2DAeerjxzYnIwL-2DlBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg-2526m-253DXF8IZVcRYbtxJ1J-5FpekbPCkoMP5ccK8D9W1d1Ib6wAY-2526s-253DNq1u-2DhUyL6HnT-5FZmSsp9-2Db3GInRrRL8rAwHbj5CurIE-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Ctheophilus.b.griswold-2540nasa.gov-257Ca661508eea6244fe55de08d898590849-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637426855443469373-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26sdata-3D4777reJmCIKS4e-252FJq8SQAZDNKjboYdJunO264lIKF7I-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=H74I9DGmDk2_-Y5NxqeDRL3M_VGh1xjfrGLa354WkmA&s=zMjj0zJaosyPF_3JIGPMWG81ahqWgL9XfoNbeiBhXTg&e=>
>>>>  
>>>> On Dec 3, 2020, at 10:40 AM, Marlene Donnelly < [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: 
>>>>  
>>>> Hello all, 
>>>> Hope you had a lovely, if small, Thanksgiving. 
>>>>   
>>>> My Chicago Botanic Garden classes are finally going online (thank goodness) and I am scrambling--we had been told we'd be teaching online classes from the Garden with their superior equipment, but that just changed per the governor's order.   
>>>>   
>>>> Can any of you wonderful experienced online instructors recommend a webcam that catches the detail that we need without being crazy expensive?  All advice much appreciated!
>>>>   
>>>> Thanks and stay safe, 
>>>> Marlene 
>>>>   
>>>> -- 
>>>> Marlene Hill Donnelly 
>>>> Scientific Illustrator 
>>>> The Field Museum 
>>>> (312) 665-7638 
>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the instructions at 
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=4hI8FLZklZ9gtBH2z9Djv1ktkg1WaK6UxFVYglwyNQA&s=0iaLTT1Hn4CMz-s1gBEm-Bu4ZJjcQkGpdk7G_3qaZr0&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fwww.gnsi.org-5Flistserv-2526d-253DDwMFaQ-2526c-253DCu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX-5Frg6kWhlkLF8Eft-2Dwwo-2526r-253DAGYZ7-2DAeerjxzYnIwL-2DlBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg-2526m-253DXF8IZVcRYbtxJ1J-5FpekbPCkoMP5ccK8D9W1d1Ib6wAY-2526s-253D1ye2IpZ01fJjQJ-5FqwA-5FGsRwU8bTrwNwQTV1yl2ad7l0-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Ctheophilus.b.griswold-2540nasa.gov-257Ca661508eea6244fe55de08d898590849-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637426855443479354-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26sdata-3DeuoJCMKyMpxL10JOaFfjfHP7u8M7040ptj9gZMVNxBA-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=H74I9DGmDk2_-Y5NxqeDRL3M_VGh1xjfrGLa354WkmA&s=URx1N-4Lxh7W8k279UedMaZFrAIz7sHn6TDc_NY_Q1M&e=>List name is Sciart-L
>>>> Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the instructions at 
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gnsi.org_listserv&d=DwIFaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=4hI8FLZklZ9gtBH2z9Djv1ktkg1WaK6UxFVYglwyNQA&s=0iaLTT1Hn4CMz-s1gBEm-Bu4ZJjcQkGpdk7G_3qaZr0&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fwww.gnsi.org-5Flistserv-2526d-253DDwMFaQ-2526c-253DCu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX-5Frg6kWhlkLF8Eft-2Dwwo-2526r-253DAGYZ7-2DAeerjxzYnIwL-2DlBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg-2526m-253Dz-2DBQ3Ou9Ve11zOna8sN-2DKGnWLwG1YxM-5F0aH1ii9sCTI-2526s-253D8ngGuDeMZ16WYSuHDwPyIIfSz5fCHbDg2A3nkALJn6A-2526e-253D-26data-3D04-257C01-257Ctheophilus.b.griswold-2540nasa.gov-257Ca661508eea6244fe55de08d898590849-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637426855443489314-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26sdata-3DqCrMd4IvLtAcBSpzoVgG4SS2poWJCifewRcnMmFfxvk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=Cu5g146wZdoqVuKpTNsYHeFX_rg6kWhlkLF8Eft-wwo&r=AGYZ7-AeerjxzYnIwL-lBLFI3SPYN3BDmku4qGQB4Tg&m=H74I9DGmDk2_-Y5NxqeDRL3M_VGh1xjfrGLa354WkmA&s=JUg99NTjE8H5AlWp214pzjYiWQjKEPJ_0oxxEV-MRPU&e=>List name is Sciart-L
>>>> Problems: Email Lana Johnson at [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> 
>>>   
>>> -- 
>>> Marlene Hill Donnelly 
>>> Scientific Illustrator 
>>> The Field Museum 
>>> (312) 665-7638 
>>> ________________________________________________
>>> Need to leave or subscribe to the Sciart-L listserv? Follow the instructions at 
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